Petable Turtles | Town Hall Meeting

Today was an interesting day for Turtlers as Grim Hathor and Matthew Anthony hosted a Town Hall Meeting regarding the community’s concerns about Cosmic Turtles and how breeders get them.  This subject recently became quite heated and nasty in Petable’s normal group chat to the point where one of the owners was called out of bed in the middle of the night to calm things down.

After a lengthy and structured meeting that took place in a special group chat, Matthew Anthony has stated that they are not announcing anything today, but that there will be upcoming posts on the Petable Blog within the next few days.

Here is the transcript from today’s meeting:

[2010/09/11 12:18]  Grim Hathor: Yay chat lag – Test
[2010/09/11 12:18]  Grim Hathor: Hello turtlers. We are holding this meeting today about the distribution of cosmic turtles. Let us first apologize for letting the situation get to a boiling point, rather than addressing it sooner. We had the best of intentions when designing and planning the cosmic distribution; however in practice it has not been received like we had hoped. Once again we are forced to face the fact that we are not psychic, lol.
[2010/09/11 12:20]  Wolfgar Dragonash: ok iam in
[2010/09/11 12:21]  Grim Hathor: Before we continue our introduction to the issues at hand I would like to layout some ground rules for this meeting. This meeting will be structured, logical, organized, and rational.
[2010/09/11 12:21]  Grim Hathor: 20 min Introduction
30 min Speakers 1 at a time explaining concerns (Not solutions)
30 min Open group discussing concerns (Not solutions)
30 min Speakers 1 at a time explaining suggested solutions (Brainstorming)
30 min Open group discussing solutions (Brainstorming)
1 hour Open group discussing pros and cons of suggested solutions
40 minutes Free time (for being flexible)
[2010/09/11 12:23]  Grim Hathor: We ask that during the concerns section you not critique concerns. The point is to get all concerns and points of view out there. You may speak about what you do, or do not like, about the current system. This isn’t about who is right and who is wrong, it is about getting a clear idea of what people do and do not like about the system as it is.
[2010/09/11 12:24]  Grim Hathor: We ask that during the suggestions section you not critique suggestions.. The point of this is to brainstorm different ideas. We have a big group here, let’s make use of our combined creativity to see what out of the box ideas we can generate.
[2010/09/11 12:24]  Grim Hathor: If anyone is critical of another person’s thoughts or ideas during the concerns and solutions sections, you will be removed from the group.
[2010/09/11 12:25]  Grim Hathor: The last section, weighing the pros and cons, is the appropriate time to figure out what the good and bad of each suggested solution is. This IS the time to be critical of the ideas (not the persons suggesting them, the ideas themselves). If you cannot handle an idea of yours being analyzed and critiqued then you should leave during this section.
[2010/09/11 12:25]  Grim Hathor: Again, this should be analyzing the suggestions, not the people making them. Calling a suggestion “stupid” or putting it down is not the point – we want reasons and logic. If we feel someone is becoming offensive they will get 1 warning. If they repeat they will be removed. If you would like to speak during
one of the speaking segments, please contact me (Grim Hathor) with which segment you want to speak during, and your topic.
[2010/09/11 12:25]  Grim Hathor: If, at any time during the open discussions, the group becomes chaotic with people trying to talk over each other, we will lock down chat.
[2010/09/11 12:26]  Grim Hathor: During the 1 speaker at a time sections, there may be more people wanting to speak then time available. We will be limiting speakers to 2 minutes if there is a great deal wanting to speak. We will also be filtering speakers for redundancy. If someone has already said they do not like a certain aspect, we don’t need 5 others repeating the exact same concern during this time. Same for those that may want to speak to a benefit of the current system.
[2010/09/11 12:28]  Grim Hathor: Now that we have the ground rules established, let us finish introducing the topic at hand – Cosmic Distribution. We feel that for the concerns and suggestions to be fully understood, it will help to have an idea of where the system stands now.
[2010/09/11 12:30]  Grim Hathor: we are breaking the speaking up into two topics. After we’ve posted the guidlines let me know which you want to speak during, and your topic 8)
[2010/09/11 12:30]  Grim Hathor: Currently, there are a few different types of cosmic links. The first link we will be explaining is Planet to Planet. An example of this link is two earth turtles breeding a mars. Normal to Earth also falls in this group. This link, is currently, exponentially decaying. This means that every time a planet is laid, such as a mars, the chance of getting another one decreases.
[2010/09/11 12:31]  Grim Hathor: In setting it up this way, it was our hope that it would stimulate the market. By Planets being more limited, but moons being more unlimited, we had hoped that it would encourage the purchasing of planets from other players, to amass a breeding stock to use for breeding moons. Aka Nobody gets a TON of planets, so those that want a lot of them have to buy from smaller players… but then once you have a ton of planets, you are able to use those to breed moons (including some rather rare ones) which would then be desirable on the marketplace.
[2010/09/11 12:32]  Grim Hathor: And that is the end of the intro. Going to start opening the floor to speakers, however not many lined up (so if you want your chance, IM me)
[2010/09/11 12:32]  Matthew Anthony: Before we hop into other people speaking, I just want to mention that my motherboard and video card have gone bad, so I’ll be crashing frequently
[2010/09/11 12:33]  Matthew Anthony: Grim and I are in a Skype call, so he’ll be letting me know what goes on while I’m rebooting, and I’ll be popping back in a soon as I can be each time I crash  🙂
[2010/09/11 12:33]  Grim Hathor: Also, you can talk during both concerns and suggestions if you would like
[2010/09/11 12:35]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: Thank you Grim
[2010/09/11 12:35]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: While the notecard regarding Grim’s comments on the cosmics delivery was probably not meant to go around – it did. When I read it, my immediate reaction to it was how angry I would be to find out that I had been trying and trying to breed for a certain planet and yet did not fall into the correct “category” to have that planet/moon/whatever delivered to me.
[2010/09/11 12:36]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: It is my feeling that everyone should have an equal opportunity to receive ALL planets/moons, as they do the birthstones. To limit delivery by breeder size (not individuals, I get that), it’s somewhat deceptive, and discouraging.
[2010/09/11 12:36]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: That is my biggest concern here today. Can you address this?
[2010/09/11 12:37]  Matthew Anthony: HoneyBear, have you had a chance to read through blog post I did yesterday about the topic?
[2010/09/11 12:37]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: I did Matt
[2010/09/11 12:37]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: I don’t feel it adequately covered this particular topic
[2010/09/11 12:37]  Matthew Anthony: OK.  Let me just re-iterate a couple of things from that that may not have come through correctly in that original notecard
[2010/09/11 12:37]  Matthew Anthony: There is absolutely nothing that is limited by how many turtles someone has
[2010/09/11 12:38]  Matthew Anthony: The only limiting factor is how many of a particular planet you have had before.  This number is specific to each planet, not in total
[2010/09/11 12:38]  Matthew Anthony: Whether you have 5 turtles or 5,000 turtles, you can get the exact same things
[2010/09/11 12:38]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: So the numbers of planets are limited through the delivery system?
[2010/09/11 12:39]  Matthew Anthony: Correct, the exponential decay decreases the target number to get that special with each of that type that you get
[2010/09/11 12:39]  Matthew Anthony: Every single one is available to breeders of every size
[2010/09/11 12:39]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: ok, that is certainly different than the impression the notecard delivered
[2010/09/11 12:40]  Matthew Anthony: I think a part of that honestly is because that notecard was directed at one particular circumstance  🙂  when that’s the case, it’s very easy to mis-word them for other circumstances
[2010/09/11 12:40]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: If that is in fact the case, then I’m done for now
[2010/09/11 12:40]  Lucy Lourbridge: it would have been nice to know this going in… some people had hundreds of cosmics trying to get a planet.. .spending hundreds of lindens on food.. not knowing that their chance was exponentially decreased
[2010/09/11 12:41]  Matthew Anthony: if we were to have the system passively monitor how many turtles everyone had (passive in this case meaning without active input from us), our server woudl be crippled
[2010/09/11 12:41]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: Ah, may I address that portion?
[2010/09/11 12:41]  Matthew Anthony: Lucy, I’m guessing you just came in… if you’d like to express concerns, please IM Grim and he’ll add you to the list  🙂  we’re going one at a time at this point to try to keep it orderly
[2010/09/11 12:41]  Matthew Anthony: sure thing  🙂
[2010/09/11 12:42]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: I think it’s very feasible that there can be a formula that does that very thing, without having to go to your server at all
[2010/09/11 12:42]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: something along the lines of IF breeder X = <200, THEN Makemake, jupiter, whatever
[2010/09/11 12:43]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: So, that is why I stayed upset, even after your posting
[2010/09/11 12:43]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: and is it remotely possible that your coding has caused something along these lines without you realizing it?
[2010/09/11 12:43]  Grim Hathor: Well Honey, for 1 we dont want it to be like that… but there is also the tecnical side – that actually very much would have to go to our server to figure out how many turtles a breeder has – since amny dont keep all their turtles on the same sim
[2010/09/11 12:43]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: Because I have been tracking who gets what, and I IM and ask their herd size
[2010/09/11 12:43]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: I can SEE a difference
[2010/09/11 12:45]  Grim Hathor: In a random system there will be lots of variation and strange random patterns… but it really would be an extremely weird cirumstance which could cause that without us tabluting the counts anywhere in teh code. Each egg acts as a unique event, and pulls from a list of how many of that type you’ve already had born. This list is seperate fromt eh general turtle list
[2010/09/11 12:46]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: OK
[2010/09/11 12:46]  Matthew Anthony: Really, the only way to detect that in-world would be with an llSensor event, which can only detect the 16 closest objects
[2010/09/11 12:46]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: I’ll stop at the moment
[2010/09/11 12:47]  Grim Hathor: Again, this concern part is not at all trying to be critical… were trying to find the concerns so my reply is in no way meant to invalidate your concern. At this time matt and I are just trying to privde clarification ont he system 8)
[2010/09/11 12:47]  Grim Hathor: Alright well, obviouslly by the length we’ve not got a ton queued up so the 2 minute rule isnt being enforced 8)
[2010/09/11 12:48]  Grim Hathor: Eclipso Tresothick, you have the floor
[2010/09/11 12:49]  Eclipso Trescothick: Thank you. First of all, you guys have stated that there is an exponetially decaying formula correct? This in turns makes is so we can less and less of each egg. However, when cosmics started out, it was said that cosmic eggs would have a constant chance of getting those eggs. That formular was supposed to have been applied to normals making cosmics earths only… why is this?
[2010/09/11 12:50]  Eclipso Trescothick: By that I mean, eggs from starters we supposed to give a constant chance, where eggs from normal non-shine, non-gloe were not.
[2010/09/11 12:50]  Grim Hathor: The onyl egg we said would have a consistent chance was teh cosmic starters on their sale sign. We never said that about normals getting earths
[2010/09/11 12:52]  Grim Hathor: correct, earths from staters and earths from normals work, currently, on 2 very different system
[2010/09/11 12:52]  Eclipso Trescothick: But it’s safe to say that everyone will have assumed that the offsprings of starters would have had those chances too, nowheere was it advertised to people that their ofsprings would have an expotentially decaying chance.
[2010/09/11 12:53]  Grim Hathor: you are saying the normal eggs that starters lay?
[2010/09/11 12:54]  Grim Hathor: Also as a general note – getting more requesting to speak as time goes on – chat lag is making the timelines hard *grr SL*
[2010/09/11 12:54]  Eclipso Trescothick: If we were told that, most people would have stopped breeding cosmics and stuck with specials and birthstones, or made alts to buy cosmics, and every so often make a new alt to keep chances up (which by the way, can you please explain how their distrubition work please?)
[2010/09/11 12:54]  Eclipso Trescothick: I meant, eggs that starters lay, Grim.
[2010/09/11 12:55]  Matthew Anthony: I’m not sure I’m understanding you clearly, Eclipso – the cosmic starters have a linear chance to lay earths
[2010/09/11 12:55]  Eclipso Trescothick: yes, but their offsprings don’t Mathew, we were not told of this.
[2010/09/11 12:55]  Matthew Anthony: Normals have a declining chance to lay earths – once it reaches that point, it doesn’t matter if the earth came from a normal or a cosmic starter
[2010/09/11 12:56]  Matthew Anthony: There was nothing said either way because it was a completely new system.  Whenever someone asked us how it worked, we explained “consistent”
[2010/09/11 12:57]  Matthew Anthony: We did say in the FAQ that there was a mix of ways that different eggs would be laid, with some being more fair for large and small breeders
[2010/09/11 12:58]  Matthew Anthony: (6th question on the FAQ for reference)
[2010/09/11 12:59]  Eclipso Trescothick: Matthew, to most people cosistent means the same thing over and over.  We had no idea of knowing that the consistence in this would tbe the consistant decline…
[2010/09/11 12:59]  Grim Hathor: Alright, in the interest of giving some more chances to speak I am going to cut it off here. Your concern is recognized Eclipso.
[2010/09/11 12:59]  Grim Hathor: Infiniti Mirhi, you have teh floor
[2010/09/11 12:59]  Infiniti Mirihi: Thank you, I’ll be brief and post it all at once:
[2010/09/11 13:00]  Infiniti Mirihi: Questions:
1.) What are the odds of receiving a Cosmic?
2.) Why are the odds not disclosed?
3.) What is the algorithm used (exponetially decaying system)?
Concerns:  By not releasing the odds of receiving a Cosmic (or any Special, or even the odds of a color or shine) the marketing of the Petable Turtles has the sense/”feel” of a lottery, without the regulations of disclosing the odds.  This leads many, not just me, to feel “taken” as if caught up in a scam.
[2010/09/11 13:02]  Grim Hathor: While we are willing to discuss and provide information on HOW they are distributed, we never have and never will give exact odds of getting a turtle. Doing so takes away some of the mystery, and game element of it. (It is like teh difference ina  game that tells you that you have 37 strength, and one that tells you that you are “Weak”)
[2010/09/11 13:02]  Grim Hathor: Knowing the exact odds for a paticular one is not, I believe, required for a discussion on the fairness of the distribution
[2010/09/11 13:04]  Infiniti Mirihi: but it does lead to the feeling of being “had” …  and issues that bring us to this discussion
[2010/09/11 13:05]  Grim Hathor: Again, I am not here to criticize so I do accept your concern. During the pros and cons section we can as a group further discuss the benfits and downsides 8)
[2010/09/11 13:05]  Grim Hathor: Venus dumpling, you have teh floor
[2010/09/11 13:06]  Venus Dumpling: If this is true that your formula does not go by how many turtles each person has but how many of that particular egg they have had, then we have a declining chance from there….Then when does that expire? Or does it? If i Leave turtles for an extended time and have sold them all. Now a few months later i come back. But i wasted my time and money because starting over the system still sees i have already had so many now i cant get anymore myself. I have to buy them right?
[2010/09/11 13:07]  Venus Dumpling: It just ends up making you richer because i have to buy so much food for a declining change?
[2010/09/11 13:08]  Grim Hathor: It never hard caps, so you could still get them.. however your chances would indeed still be diminished from before. So like if you had 5 earths, quit, and came back, your earths chance would still be diminished (though mars is a compeltely seperate number, as are all teh cosmics)
[2010/09/11 13:09]  Grim Hathor: Do you have another concern before we move to the next speaker?
[2010/09/11 13:09]  Venus Dumpling: I think that we should all have the same odds it just isnt fair
[2010/09/11 13:10]  Venus Dumpling: i dont know if you see my poi9nt there Grim
[2010/09/11 13:10]  Venus Dumpling: You never answered my point of you making more off food
[2010/09/11 13:11]  Grim Hathor: Indeed I understand the point . right now we are just getting the concerns out there though (not trying to avoid talking about them, just trying to keep to teh structure of the meeting)
[2010/09/11 13:11]  Grim Hathor: Angelina Sinclair, you have teh floor
[2010/09/11 13:15]  Angelina Sinclair: Well I have a concern about exceptional decay and how with the planets there is that decay but not with the moons, comets or whatever. It took Geo nearly forever to get a luna from his cosmic turtles. The chances are so slim I don’t see a point to bother. So my concern is why the decay with planets to planets and not with moons when I feel it should be the other way around.
[2010/09/11 13:16]  Grim Hathor: So kinda 2 concerns there (moon rarity) and wanting the methods reversed (which is somewhat a suggestion as well). Boith noted
[2010/09/11 13:17]  Grim Hathor: Ok, I have ben taking notes of the concerns. At this point we are going to open teyh group chat up (bear with us, takes a bit to get everyone). Again this should be more of a brainstorming format – lets just get allt eh concerns out there
[2010/09/11 13:20]  Dominica Somerset: so we can talk now
[2010/09/11 13:21]  Grim Hathor: Yes please, let us hear all teh concerns about cosmics
[2010/09/11 13:21]  Eleri Ethaniel: *raises hand*
[2010/09/11 13:21]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: Oh, chat’s open…..So, tell me, what would be the problem with a delivery system that gives everyone the same chances for each planet/moon?
[2010/09/11 13:21]  Grim Hathor: Honey – This is not the suggestions or pro/con portion… lets just get teh concerns out there
[2010/09/11 13:22]  Grim Hathor: Who else has a concern about cosmics not already mentioned?
[2010/09/11 13:22]  Eclipso Trescothick: My concern is that this system only makes You and Matthew richer, yet penalises all of us over time, by gettign less and less.
[2010/09/11 13:22]  Eleri Ethaniel: The exponential decay was posted early one, wasn’t it?
[2010/09/11 13:22]  Eleri Ethaniel: early on
[2010/09/11 13:23]  Ahlanna Aura: Greetings, thank you .. my concern is that list of what we’ve received in the past.  Yes, you’ve been given this x special cosmic xx times before, then what?  It seems like it will eventually go to nill chance of getting a moon or other cosmic rare, no matter how many specials you are breeding and feeding.. do you go to near nill and how is that fair if you are willing to feed them?
[2010/09/11 13:23]  Matthew Anthony: I’ve noted that idea as a suggestion and we’ll come back to it later  🙂
[2010/09/11 13:23]  Ridley Piers: I personally believe the rate at which these planets are comming to us  is WAY to slow. I can somewhat understand the limit to the number of them but why so slow in comming to us?
[2010/09/11 13:23]  Arianna Marenwolf: I bred Cosmics to 4th generation and got nothing from them but more eggs
[2010/09/11 13:23]  Angelina Sinclair: Well.. I’m wondering.. why cater to the small breeders? This decay will only force people to create alts, especially now since everyone knows.
[2010/09/11 13:23]  LilLizzie Kidomen: ok my concern is this with the decay system then the stats you gave for recieving earths from starters were bogus, as i got two earths from plains and have gotten nothing whatso ever from the 7 cosmic starters i paid for. so i did nothing more than waste money on buying the starters and feeding them as they are now useless and wont breed anything at all
[2010/09/11 13:24]  Marv Sideshow: Ahlanna thats my exact question too
[2010/09/11 13:25]  CalleCo Boxen: i have to say, i don’t have any concerns at all, i am a small to medium sized breeder, and have very few cosmics, but as i know that i have the exact same chance as the larger breeders to get the exact same things, then i am ok with it, i like that the cosmics are not going to be bred till they are worth nothing
[2010/09/11 13:25]  Destry Alecto: I think that is a concern….. basically most of our concerns start with that “decay” system is patently unfair and limits distribution.  It is a Very “visible” hand guiding the market… a TRULY random system is more fair..
[2010/09/11 13:25]  GeoMan Pinazzo: ====== COST ==== The system of removing the chances from a person each time they have mars and so on works out to more food and more money. @@@@ Where you aware of this? @@@@
[2010/09/11 13:25]  Lunaria Eclipse: Ok here is my opNot me I’m happy got a mercury this morning..still want my Luna. so will wait for the next portion to open my mouth
[2010/09/11 13:26]  Grim Hathor: Indeed antoher good concern Angelina – that teh system as is encourages alting
[2010/09/11 13:26]  Lunaria Eclipse: Same with Me Cal Im happy with it all
[2010/09/11 13:27]  Eleri Ethaniel: My issue is going and seeing places with dozens of cosmics for sale, at high prices, and I can’t keep up or compete. It bothers me to hear that this is unfair to larger breeders, when some seem to have more cosmics than I’ll ever get.
[2010/09/11 13:27]  Venus Dumpling: If i had known all this i would not have spent so much on starter eggs and then earths
[2010/09/11 13:27]  Lunaria Eclipse: Chat lag
[2010/09/11 13:28]  Lucian Mixemup: My only comment is this… i want to thank Grim & Matt for this opportunity to vocalize our concerns…. you guys rock!!!  I wish people would keep in mind that there is NO way to please everyone in this matter…. everyone feels they have the right idea …. but may not see everything that Grim & Matt have to consider…. theyve made awesome choices and decisions in the past and I have comlete faith they will do whats right for everyone…not just one person or group!
[2010/09/11 13:28]  CalleCo Boxen does agree with Eleri though, even if it is kind of opposite to what she said
[2010/09/11 13:28]  Venus Dumpling: and why do they keep saying some are geared to larg breeders and some to small when earlier Matt said it dont count our turtles i guess it is just confusing why mention breeder size at all?
[2010/09/11 13:28]  Lindsay Pinelli: I have a concern as well
[2010/09/11 13:29]  Eclipso Trescothick: I think the biggest concern Grim and Mathew is THIS. This system is not fair, where as a linear and truly random one would be. This system in the end will only be good to make you guys money.
[2010/09/11 13:29]  Lunaria Eclipse: bravo. Venus i heard that too.
[2010/09/11 13:29]  Arianna Marenwolf: If I had known this I would never have joined Turtles
[2010/09/11 13:29]  Radioactive Rosca: I have the same oppinion as Eclipso
[2010/09/11 13:30]  Eleri Ethaniel: maybe part of the problem isn’t the system, but people going and buying and breeding as much and as fast as they can to be first/best.
[2010/09/11 13:30]  Destry Alecto: Here Here Eclipso……. Thats the bottom Line…. Only Truly Random is fair… why are you attemtping to control the market?
[2010/09/11 13:30]  GeoMan Pinazzo agree’s with Eclipso
[2010/09/11 13:30]  Sassy Hendrassen: you know i keep reading this thing about favoring smaller breeders. well some of my lil shells must have missed that memo. i have gotten very few cosmics. as a matter of fact i got the first earth from normals right off then had to wait weeks to another.
[2010/09/11 13:30]  Quantum Landar: Eleri, “all those cosmics” is giving them NO ADVANTAGE – only costing way too much to feed
[2010/09/11 13:30]  Strongpaw Griffis: So if I understand this correctly. I have have 10 earths in all and I got male cursed and 8 of them are male and 2 are female i’m now forever penalised by non productive turtles?
[2010/09/11 13:31]  Marv Sideshow: food prices have to come down or at least last longer, i would say I am a small breeder and I still pay about 3k a week on food
[2010/09/11 13:31]  Lunaria Eclipse: it is not unfair to large breeders didnt you see Mat said EVERYONE has the same chances at them.  If you favor the larger breeders cause they have more turtles that is unfair. to small breederrs .  Grim and Mat both said you have the same chances.
[2010/09/11 13:31]  Lunaria Eclipse: doesnt Agree, feels that if you choose to feed 1000 turtles then  you have decided to pay anyways.
[2010/09/11 13:31]  Arianna Marenwolf: nods Marv
[2010/09/11 13:31]  Lunaria Eclipse: ?
[2010/09/11 13:31]  CalleCo Boxen: i think the problem is…when the chances are truly random, and certain breeders can breed as many as chance allows, we suddenly hear how much it sucks that the market is suddenly full of these now overbred specials…so which is it? be concerned over too many being bred or be concerned over not enough? can’t have it both ways
[2010/09/11 13:31]  Grim Hathor: Alright – just to clarify confusion – In teh current system. We do not count how many turtles you own. We could how many of X cosmic your turtles have laid. (For instance, we count that your normals have produced 5 earths). We then use teh number there, 5, to determine how hard the next one will be (#6). Each cosmic done this way has a completely seperate value… so your mars dont know how many earths you’ve had… therefor the system never knows how many turtles you have… just how many of a specific cosmic you have bred.
[2010/09/11 13:31]  Lindsay Pinelli: sorry chat lag i didn’t see mine go in
[2010/09/11 13:32]  Eleri Ethaniel: the exponential decay was announced right off, so no one should have been supprised by it.
[2010/09/11 13:32]  Lindsay Pinelli: i have alts but am i going to buy cosmics on them to get a venus? No. 1. i can’t afford that. 2. shouldn’t have to. i don’t even HAVE turtles on those avs. The only Cosmics and planets i have are the 2 cosmic starters and 3 earths
[2010/09/11 13:32]  GeoMan Pinazzo: @@@ GRIM @@@ which costs every breeder more L$ in food does it not?
[2010/09/11 13:32]  Eleri Ethaniel: *agrees with CalleCo*
[2010/09/11 13:32]  Lindsay Pinelli: I will not and cannot buy from others to increase my chances and have that not work
[2010/09/11 13:33]  Marv Sideshow: i think i have maybe 60 Lunaria
[2010/09/11 13:33]  Lunaria Eclipse: i have over 100..and i dont feel cheated i feel it fair as its a game its the odds and the fun in trying
[2010/09/11 13:33]  Venus Dumpling: HAVE BRED? THEN IF I BUY A COSMIC IT IS USED AGAINST ME BECAUSE I HAVE BRED SOMETHING WITH IT?
[2010/09/11 13:34]  Eleri Ethaniel: Maybe I’m an etrnal optimist, but I think this would have been half the problem, if people were willing to share and exchange, instead of pricing planets at 10K and up.
[2010/09/11 13:34]  Marv Sideshow: i didnt say i felt cheated lol, I said I felt food needs to last longer
[2010/09/11 13:35]  Eleri Ethaniel: have bred= have had one of your turtles lay an egg of that type. Don’t shout
[2010/09/11 13:35]  CalleCo Boxen: *ditto’s Eleri* oooh..that sounded naughty
[2010/09/11 13:35]  Dominica Somerset: planets r too much the system needs tweeking
[2010/09/11 13:35]  Arianna Marenwolf: nothing is RARE anymore
[2010/09/11 13:35]  Eleri Ethaniel: I just walked by a venus prives at almost 30K. that’s not the guy’s fault
[2010/09/11 13:35]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: There is something WRONG with the system guys, when some people haven’t gotten anything beyond an earth.
[2010/09/11 13:35]  Eclipso Trescothick: >>>>>> Mathew and Grim. Does this also take place on birthstones? same parents laying eggs for example? <<<<<<
[2010/09/11 13:36]  Kzru Bruhl pulls his shelter into this chant: ok i have a questio wth the decay is there a point where the maths say its gone to far as im is therre a bottom to the percentage? or will it just keep getting harder and harder?
[2010/09/11 13:36]  Merlin Bellic: ok then why is it i have 8 new earths and as of today thay have not laid anything that is worth anything the the odds are not there… what are the odds here becouse if you look at it like i am this is like Vegas so tell me the odds on how 8 new turtles in the last 4 weeks have not laid any thing…
[2010/09/11 13:36]  illusions Cisse: and how many venus’s have we seen for 3k
[2010/09/11 13:36]  Grim Hathor: No venus – buying a cosmic isnt factored it – if you breed that cosmic and it lays another cosmic such as an earth laying a mars – then that new mars egg is tallied for the equation
[2010/09/11 13:36]  Destry Alecto: so I buy 10 lottery tickets… 1 ever day… and the one on days 2-10 have an exponentially lower chance of winning then the one I bought on day one………
[2010/09/11 13:36]  Grim Hathor: Again, I am tryign to clarify how it currently works – not saying it is teh best way of doing it
[2010/09/11 13:37]  Lunaria Eclipse: The guys never hid the fact of the decay they said it right at the start norm turtles will lose chances as they give you them, cosmics would be linear
[2010/09/11 13:37]  Arianna Marenwolf: Grim how about lowering the price of food?
[2010/09/11 13:37]  Eclipso Trescothick: Does it works this way also for specials laying birthstones grim? expotentially decaying odds of getting a birthstone?
[2010/09/11 13:37]  Lunaria Eclipse: lol
[2010/09/11 13:37]  Matthew Anthony: This discussion isn’t about the food cost, it’s about the cosmic rates
[2010/09/11 13:37]  Lunaria Eclipse: They have expenses like the server they pay for to house all the turtles people own and im sure that is not cheap
[2010/09/11 13:37]  Izina Quandry waits patiently for the suggestion portion of this meeting
[2010/09/11 13:37]  Dominica Somerset: yeah its too slow
[2010/09/11 13:37]  Merlin Bellic: but it is
[2010/09/11 13:37]  Arianna Marenwolf: Well “I” am talking about food
[2010/09/11 13:38]  HoneyBear Lilliehook says softly….however, they’re closely tied together 😉
[2010/09/11 13:38]  Matthew Anthony: While we know some people want food costs lowered, this isn’t the time and place  🙂
[2010/09/11 13:38]  Destry Alecto: Lunaria… I think Grim and Matt can speak for themselves….. OK?
[2010/09/11 13:38]  Marv Sideshow: no doubt
[2010/09/11 13:38]  Izina Quandry: Matt, actually, it is part of this issue
[2010/09/11 13:38]  Arianna Marenwolf: So are we going to have a meeting about food later then?
[2010/09/11 13:38]  Merlin Bellic: if im going to sit here and buy food to git a mars thay are all in one
[2010/09/11 13:38]  Lunaria Eclipse: I didnt say they couldnt Destry but thank you
[2010/09/11 13:38]  Merlin Bellic: im spending money on food and gitting nothing in return
[2010/09/11 13:39]  Arianne Selona: omg food is certainly a concern… but let’s stay focused please..
[2010/09/11 13:39]  ANJILL Pevensey: one of my renters had never owned a turtle and joined turtling and had 15 females normals for 5 weeks and never got an earth from them. so is it per person or overall?the odds
[2010/09/11 13:39]  Matthew Anthony: Eclipso – as we’ve stated before, birthstones are linear
[2010/09/11 13:39]  Eclipso Trescothick: ok
[2010/09/11 13:39]  Grim Hathor: Alright, I am going to ask for silence for a moment, so that we can list the concerns we have heard and written down, so as not to miss any. Please dont make us go through and dissallow chat again to get this done
[2010/09/11 13:39]  Marv Sideshow: if u slowly cant get cosmics any longer and you continue to feed them whats the point i guess
[2010/09/11 13:39]  Arianne Selona: because it’s fun….
[2010/09/11 13:39]  Faide Morane: Forgive my ignorance, but could you explain Linear? when birthing turtles?
[2010/09/11 13:40]  Eclipso Trescothick: btw Matt, may wanna use a text based viewer, such as Radegast from the third party viewer directory in case you crash again.
[2010/09/11 13:40]  Grim Hathor: Asking for silence again (I know there is some chat lag). Please let us get through this though
[2010/09/11 13:40]  Nola Hellershanks: my question is why are the same people making discoveries if the chances decrese?
[2010/09/11 13:41]  Matthew Anthony: The main gist of what I’m seeing concern-wise is that people feel this system is unfair because of the decay, that we shouldn’t cater to the small breeders, that this system encourages alting, that some people are having difficulty getting things from cosmic starters, that changing it now could possibly hurt the market by putting more out there, and that getting males is a permanent detriment
[2010/09/11 13:42]  Matthew Anthony: Those are just the ones from since we started the open chat discussion, not from the previous by-person portion  🙂
[2010/09/11 13:42]  GeoMan Pinazzo: I don’t think you can hurt the market any more then it is now. Birth stones are being sold at 300L its already crashing.
[2010/09/11 13:42]  Dominica Somerset: no i want some more out there
[2010/09/11 13:42]  ANJILL Pevensey: my concern is that some people who are new buy regualr starters and still get no earths from them.people who have never turtled before just starting out.
[2010/09/11 13:42]  Lunaria Eclipse: I think if you change it all that will happen is the market will flood with more and more of them the decayin prevents that if you ask me other than the alt concern
[2010/09/11 13:43]  Matthew Anthony: GeoMan, now isn’t the time to discuss the concerns that people listed
[2010/09/11 13:43]  Ridley Piers: Having dificulty getting anything from anything i have got nothing from mars venus or luna yet
[2010/09/11 13:43]  Dominica Somerset: ill do an alt i dont care
[2010/09/11 13:43]  Izina Quandry: because the exp decline is on a specific type of turtle laid by your turtles… for instance your earth turtles can lay both mars and venus. If it lays a mars, the next one might be harder to get. But those same two earths could lay a venus without any decline in chances until the venus is laid
[2010/09/11 13:43]  Eleri Ethaniel: may I ask for a clarification?
[2010/09/11 13:43]  GeoMan Pinazzo: Mat you mention the market I simply made the comment on it being you mention it.
[2010/09/11 13:44]  Arianna Marenwolf: censored
[2010/09/11 13:44]  Sassy Hendrassen: i still do not understand how smaller breeders have a better chance at some cosmics. i have gotten very little. i do not under this being said. will you pls help me understand thime
[2010/09/11 13:45]  Matthew Anthony: Sassy – it’s not a “better chance”, it’s a more even chance with larger breeders
[2010/09/11 13:45]  Grim Hathor: Alright, at this point we are going to move into the suggestions potion. We are beginning the lockdown process
[2010/09/11 13:45]  Radioactive Rosca: let Grim and Matt go to the suggestion theme
[2010/09/11 13:45]  Lunaria Eclipse: i agree with the more even chance for all breeders
[2010/09/11 13:45]  Angelina Sinclair: To me the decay is like an expiration date. After you get X number of cosmics, it’s not profitable to keep them and your better off selling them and buying the ones you need for the next line. This is bad because it’s encouraging people to get alts to get what they want.
[2010/09/11 13:45]  Lunaria Eclipse: and im a middle breeder not a small one
[2010/09/11 13:47]  Grim Hathor: Alright, tiem for teh suggestions portion. If you would like a chance to speak during this portion, please IM (be sure to include a topic relevant to cosmics)
[2010/09/11 13:48]  Grim Hathor: Again this should be brainstorming – lets just get ideas flowing and out there
[2010/09/11 13:48]  Grim Hathor: The last part of this meeting is where we start weighing the ups and downs of each in relation to the concerns
[2010/09/11 13:49]  Grim Hathor: If you are on teh list to speak – and someone ahead of you makes the same suggestion, let me know to take you off the list, we dont need repeating 8)
[2010/09/11 13:50]  Fontana Kira: Please put in the individual FAQs if a turtle is on a linear or exponental formula (or no formula like the 1 per breeders).
[2010/09/11 13:50]  Grim Hathor: Fontana Kira, you have teh floor
[2010/09/11 13:51]  Fontana Kira: no, thanks
[2010/09/11 13:51]  Fontana Kira: oops
[2010/09/11 13:52]  Grim Hathor: Eclipso Trescothick, you have teh floor
[2010/09/11 13:52]  Eclipso Trescothick: I would like to suggest that the distribution be trulyl random and linear. Just like a lottery. Same odds to everyone, if they chose to buy more ticket (turtles) that’s up to everyone else.
There is no need to put a “expotentially decaying” distribution system in place…
Because if there is, the only solution I can see, if for me to make alts, send turtles to new alts every 2 weeks, and go to a stip joint with my saved lindens.
[2010/09/11 13:54]  Eclipso Trescothick: We need to be informed og what sort of distribution method is in place for turtles and egg types, otherwise we are wasting money, and I still won’t be able to go to my strip joints no more.
[2010/09/11 13:57]  Grim Hathor: Eleri, you have teh floor
[2010/09/11 13:57]  Eleri Ethaniel: I feel a bit of an extremest with this, but I’d suggest a couple things
1) limit special eggs to >5 per person, either by breeding or by points.  If people want more, thy have to buy them from those who don’t want them.
[2010/09/11 13:58]  Eleri Ethaniel: 2) or make it truely random, that iof you have cosmics in your herd, any female might lay a cosmic
[2010/09/11 13:58]  Eleri Ethaniel: 3) put a month or two moratorium on special laying to clear out the market.
[2010/09/11 13:59]  Eleri Ethaniel: that’s my evil plan for turtle dominion 😉
[2010/09/11 14:00]  Grim Hathor: Venus dumpling, you have the floor
[2010/09/11 14:00]  Venus Dumpling: What i am seeing here is we have to create a bunch of alts put them all in the petable group then we have to send all our cosmics off to another alt after we get say 5 eggs from them and keep doing this if we want to get the whole cosmic series. What will this do to your numbers on turtlers? I think it should be a fair chance for everyone to get them and not have the decay at all! otherwise you will never know if the turtle market is truly growing or not!
Cosmics should also come from shine turtles as now they have lost all value in the marketplace
[2010/09/11 14:01]  Venus Dumpling: thats all i have to say on this subject
[2010/09/11 14:03]  Grim Hathor: Kzru, you have teh floor
[2010/09/11 14:04]  Kzru Bruhl: sorry for bad spellings
[2010/09/11 14:04]  Kzru Bruhl: with the decay rate there needs to be a minimum on the probability. if you dont and the maths keeps going after a set point there is no reson to keep the older turtles they are just a waste of time money prims and scrip times.
[2010/09/11 14:05]  Kzru Bruhl: if you do limit how many of a set special you get then it will just make the big breeders drop half there stock  or make tones of alts
[2010/09/11 14:06]  Kzru Bruhl: thats my 2 peneth thanks
[2010/09/11 14:07]  Grim Hathor: arabella, you have teh floor
[2010/09/11 14:07]  arabella Cinquetti: I understand that everyone is truly upset about the decline and the flooding of the market, but if we start changing rules in the middle of the game those who have a lot of turtles or invested large amounts of money into turtles will start liquidating. There has to be a healthy balance and extreme measures such as cap’ing, limitations on number of turtles people can have is not going to help turtles grow. I would suggest that there be more of a balance in all of the turtles, that if a cosmic was to breed with a glow or a birthstone that there is equal chance as long as a comic line  is involved in the breeding process. this allows for the other turtles we already have to  still have value to us and even if it allows for just say earths to be born this is more than we have at this point. It concerns me all this talk about  decaying and swapping to alts.
Thanks for allowing me to voice an opinion 😀
[2010/09/11 14:09]  Grim Hathor: Lunaria, you ahve teh floor
[2010/09/11 14:10]  Lunaria Eclipse: I suggest that you change nothing as it gives all turtlers an even shot at getting every turtle.  New turtlers need that boost to know they are not going to be less than others in turtles for a year now, they need to feel confident they will get the same chances as someone that has 100’s of turtles.  I like it how it is, feel its fair to turtlers on a whole.  So my suggestion is to leave all in place as is. As for the alts that is a concern with decay but I dont see how to prevent that of course and I do suggest that point item eggs have a limit per AV.  Thank you for letting me give my opinion on this all 🙂
[2010/09/11 14:12]  Grim Hathor: Angelina Sinclair, you have teh floor
[2010/09/11 14:14]  Angelina Sinclair: My suggestion is about the decay. I think the one serious problem with is you DIDN’T include the number of cosmics that person has. Think of it like this.. if someone has 500 cosmic turtles.. and they only get 15 mars out of that but can’t get any more because the chance has dropped so low. Yet me.. who has about 40 comics got about 6 or 7 from mine. When you compare those two situations you can see that there is something wrong. So my suggestion is tweak the decay to include how many cosmics that person has. I could add more detail to this but I’ll do that later. lol
[2010/09/11 14:16]  Grim Hathor: Merlin, you have teh floor
[2010/09/11 14:16]  Merlin Bellic: Make all specials linear rather than decaying distributions, period. (with exceptions for one day sorts of things like mardi/st pats/etc).
A special trader – with three new “extra” specials – 10 specials could be traded for the lowest, 20 for the second and 30 for the best one. This would give us all something to do with our worthless males. Yeah bigger breeders would have more, but then look how many fewer junk turtles would be out there.
Preannounce what will come next year in place of birthstones so that specials dont keep losing all value as they are now.
Create a “pet food” – half the cost and NO eggs. NOT the chastity belt that is expensive and complicated and doesn’t work on fixed turtles.
[2010/09/11 14:17]  Grim Hathor: Afraid that one got a bit off topic, appologies.
[2010/09/11 14:20]  Matthew Anthony: Give us just a second, we’re making sure the next couple of people on the list have something new that hasn’t been brought up yet  🙂
[2010/09/11 14:22]  Matthew Anthony: Ridley has the floor now
[2010/09/11 14:24]  Ridley Piers: I would like to suggest that no matter which way the cosmics are breed liner or decay we just are not getting the planets and moon and I thin overall we would like to see an increase at how fast these are comming to us so we can get what we need to get the next discovery
[2010/09/11 14:25]  Venus Dumpling: WHy not make a point item that costs say 40k points where you can feed it to your turtle and it removes the decay from that 1 turtle? that would take care of some high point holders as well
[2010/09/11 14:25]  Grim Hathor: Venus, you have teh floor(again). This is the last speaker
[2010/09/11 14:26]  Venus Dumpling: i have alot of points and nothing to spend them on
[2010/09/11 14:26]  Grim Hathor: woooooops, missed one other speaker that signed up early, my bad! Izina will be the last speaker
[2010/09/11 14:27]  Grim Hathor: Izina, you’re up! (sorry about that!)
[2010/09/11 14:28]  Izina Quandry: First, let me say I’m in favor of the exponential decay formula, allowing everyone (big breeder or small) to get at least one of each special/cosmic, (ie the National Pride Turtle, I think) while limiting the number of specials/cosmics being produced across the board. Random has a bigger chance of flooding the market.
Matt, I know you dont feel cost is part of this issue, but it is. Many people have mentioned the cost of feeding the turtles as an issue.
Perhaps instead of changing the formulas for the specials, you could help us keep you successful by stretching how far a box of food goes. Instead of them eating 6 times a day, have them eat 4, or even 5. It doesnt sound like a lot, but it adds up on 100 turtles (just one serving less = 3000 servings a month), and to be quite honest, doesnt cut into your bottom line that much.  (more..)
[2010/09/11 14:28]  Izina Quandry: Another thing that will help us all… increasing the commission we receive through the vendors. Most vendors give at least 10 percent commission. Petables gives 2% I believe, barely covering the cost of the vendor being hung at our store, prim wise.
And Increase the discount we receive by buying a huge box. 500L isn’t a huge discount in the big scheme of things.
We just want to be able to justify the cost of having the prims necessary and the food needed to keep our turtles, without having to take out second mortgages on or RL homes. To do that, we depend on selling our extra specials to raise the money to cover their costs. In my opinion, that is part of the game. If we can’t justify  the cost, more and more will leave, and Petables will die out. (yes. more)
To add on to arabella’s idea, if the cosmics breed with other specials, let them produce alien turtles \o/ or other specials not in the cosmic line 😉 Thank you.
[2010/09/11 14:31]  Grim Hathor: Arlight, because of time, we are not going to do an open discussion on teh suggestion topic. We are going to move right from this, suggestions, into pros and cons (which will prolly take the most time). Are there any last minute suggestions that were waiting for open suggestions? if so please IM me now
[2010/09/11 14:34]  Grim Hathor: Again in interest of time, Posting a suggestion I just recieved alst minute “reset decay rates for everyone periodically.  Right now there is no reason for me to continue breeding them because I’m pretty much nilled out as it stands so I have no motivation whatsoever to unbox or keep these turtles.”
[2010/09/11 14:35]  Grim Hathor: Alright – Moving onto the Pros and Cons potion. Now is the time to actually discuss the suggestions. The good and teh bad of them, and how they will help resolve teh concerns. This part is the part most likely to get heated, so we all need to be sure we remain calm.
[2010/09/11 14:36]  Grim Hathor: The way it is going to work is Matt is going to list off suggestions, and we are going to explain some of the technical dificulties (if they have technical difficulties), We will also give our opinions on them, what we feel are pros and cons. Then we will open chat back up. When chat opens back up do not all just start posting about different suggestions. We will bring up the suggestions, 1 at a time, discuss them, then move to the next
[2010/09/11 14:36]  Grim Hathor: Keep your comment about the suggestion at hand please, so that we may get through them
[2010/09/11 14:37]  Matthew Anthony: First one that came in was that we make planet-planet links linear and planet-moon links exponential
[2010/09/11 14:38]  Matthew Anthony: Technically, this is possible, but in our opinion, this wouldn’t fix the problem that we’re having here – it’d just flip it from planets to moon
[2010/09/11 14:38]  Matthew Anthony: Next suggestion was to make everything a linear distribution with no exponential decays
[2010/09/11 14:39]  Matthew Anthony: Once again, this is technically possible.  From what we see, the pros are this would eliminate concerns of alt exploitation and it would alleviate most of the concerns expressed here
[2010/09/11 14:39]  Matthew Anthony: The cons we see are that this would make it harder on smaller breeders, as well as a possibility to increase the number of them out on the market, leading to a quick value decrease
[2010/09/11 14:40]  Matthew Anthony: Next was making everything more common.  Once again, technically possible (yay!  I like those)
[2010/09/11 14:40]  Matthew Anthony: The nice thing with this is that it would allow more people to be happy on getting them
[2010/09/11 14:41]  Matthew Anthony: The cons we see are once again market saturation and that it would run through all the Cosmics faster (even though there are quite a few of them), which we’re not sure would be a great thing if it went too fast
[2010/09/11 14:42]  Matthew Anthony: Next suggestion was to put in the FAQ whether things are linear or exponential
[2010/09/11 14:42]  Matthew Anthony: The biggest pro on this is that all of you would know what to expect, which would be great
[2010/09/11 14:42]  Matthew Anthony: The biggest con we see is that we’d have to give away all of the linkages, so there would be no more exploration, unless we waited to do this until after each turtle was found a few times
[2010/09/11 14:43]  Matthew Anthony: Next suggestion was to limit all special eggs to 5 per person per type.  Technically, this really isn’t possible because people can just use alt accounts
[2010/09/11 14:45]  Matthew Anthony: Next suggestion was to make it so that any of your turtles can lay a cosmic egg if you have a lot of cosmics in your herd
[2010/09/11 14:46]  Matthew Anthony: Technically this is feasible.  The positive we see in this is that it would give people more reasons to cheer checking their attractor.  The con would be that everything would have the same chance at everything, so there wouldn’t really be more exploration
[2010/09/11 14:47]  Matthew Anthony: Next suggestion is a month or two moratorium on specials being laid.  This once again really isn’t technically feasible because of the missing birthstone months.  While it would be a pro to make the specials market smaller, that would be a month or two where people are paying for food to get no specials, which we see as a large con
[2010/09/11 14:48]  Matthew Anthony: The next suggestion is that we do something to discourage using alternate accounts.  We’re open to any ideas on that front, but we really didn’t see anything in this discussion that would be a viable solution to the “alt problem”
[2010/09/11 14:49]  Matthew Anthony: The next suggestion was that cosmics should also come from shine turtles.  This is technically possible.  The pro we see would be a temporary boost in shine values, but the con being that it would only be a short-term temporary boost since people can get shines in large numbers
[2010/09/11 14:50]  Matthew Anthony: The next suggestion was to keep exponential decay formulas, but have a minimum amount that it goes to.  The biggest pro we see to this is that it would allow a small boost at the beginning, but would also have a linear component after a few eggs.  In addition, it discourages the use of alt accounts more than an exponential decay formula.  The downside is that it still would incentivize using alternate accounts
[2010/09/11 14:52]  Matthew Anthony: The next suggestion was to allow any cosmic with something else to produce other cosmics, possibly just Earth.  This is technically possible.  The upside to this would be that it would create less dependance on cosmic starter eggs for new people coming in.  The downside would be that it would even further flood the Earth market, or whatever came from them
[2010/09/11 14:52]  Matthew Anthony: The next suggestion was to change nothing.  Technically, this is very possible  😉
[2010/09/11 14:53]  Matthew Anthony: The biggest upside is that it keeps what’s already there in effect today with the system encouraging trade between people to get large amounts of a certain planet.  The two downsides we see are that it does encourage the use of alternate accounts, and all the concerns that have been expressed today will still remain
[2010/09/11 14:54]  Matthew Anthony: The next suggestion was to take how many cosmics the person already has into account.  This is technically not possible because it would require our server to constantly calculate that every time a turtle laid eggs, which would completely cripple it
[2010/09/11 14:56]  Matthew Anthony: Next up is a high cost point item that removes decay from one specific turtle.  While not technically impossible, it would be the most technically-difficult thing on this list.  The upside to this is that it would create a point sink.  The downside is that it has the possibility to upset smaller breeders who can’t afford to get this point item en masse, and therefore wouldn’t have a chance to participate in the marketplace
[2010/09/11 14:57]  Matthew Anthony: The last suggestion on the list about Cosmics is to reset the decay rates periodically. This is technically possible.  The pro to this would be that it would set things back to the way they were in the beginning, but the downside is that it would still encourage the use of alternate accounts during the in-between times
[2010/09/11 14:58]  Matthew Anthony: I know there were some suggestions made about non-Cosmic topics (food, special trader, etc) that I have not included in this list because we really do want to focus this discussion on just how cosmics are bred
[2010/09/11 14:59]  Matthew Anthony: So, before we open chat up to everyone for the pros/cons, I just want to re-iterate that we’re not here to criticize each other, just give pros and cons of each idea  🙂
[2010/09/11 15:00]  Matthew Anthony: I’m not going to put the ones that are not technically possible up for discussion, because that would just be a waste of everyone’s time
[2010/09/11 15:01]  Matthew Anthony: Just like with the problems and solutions times, if someone else says your pro or con, we’ve already written it down, so there’s no need to say it again.  That also applies to ones that Grim and I have already covered and I typed here
[2010/09/11 15:01]  Matthew Anthony: with that, give us just a second to open everyone’s chat back up, and then I’ll post the first one for discussion
[2010/09/11 15:04]  Matthew Anthony: The first one is once again that planet-to-planet should be a linear chance and planet-to-moon should be an exponential formula.  Pros/cons?
[2010/09/11 15:04]  Ridley Piers: Matt, Grim I think the topics  discussed here today boil down to switch these to linear or not and then where to go from there once that is decided, wouldnt the best way to find out what eveyone wants be to create a proposal everyone in the group could vote on to do just that?
[2010/09/11 15:05]  Quantum Landar: I don’t understand why they are worried about the little, few hundred linden per week breeder at the expense of those spending 10k or more per week.
[2010/09/11 15:05]  Strongpaw Griffis: Mmmm alt votes gotta love those
[2010/09/11 15:05]  Destry Alecto: It doesnt help….. just reverses things… Exponential decay should be removed…..
[2010/09/11 15:05]  Angelina Sinclair: Well.. the moons are hard enough to get as is. I’ve gotten more mars and venuses than I ever gotten lunas. (Currently 5 venus 6 mars to 1 luna.)
[2010/09/11 15:06]  Lunaria Eclipse: I see the pros as all would get them i see the cons as being the people with more turtles would profit more off it where as the smaller breeders would suffer.
[2010/09/11 15:06]  LilLizzie Kidomen: be happy with that i have gotten 2 eaths and 1 luna total and not one thing whatso ever from the cosmic starters i purchased at all
[2010/09/11 15:06]  Brieanne Bomazi: i think that will unjustly drive up the cost for ones already born while people try to get a jump in the market for the next line. The big breeders are just that thru their own choice, they choose to spend that money, no one offered them a bonus or a guarantee. They need to suck it up. No one should have an advantage, small or large. there was never a written assurance on anything.
[2010/09/11 15:07]  Destry Alecto: why do the smaller breeder rate an advantage?  Its because Matt and Grim want to encourage new breeders to get them hooked on turtling… in order to get more peope in at the bottom floor of the pyramid…. Equality… across the board….is the only fair answer…. everyone has the same chance.
[2010/09/11 15:07]  illusions Cisse: I did suck it up, i went from 200 in the cosmic series to 0
[2010/09/11 15:07]  Bettie Heslop: can i just say im a small breeder and in the 6 weeks i had 8 pairs breeding i got one venus in all that time so i still think its pretty random to who recives what
[2010/09/11 15:08]  Matthew Anthony: Any more pros/cons on that particular suggestion?  Please stay on that particular one for now, guys  🙂
[2010/09/11 15:08]  Eleri Ethaniel: I agree with Bri. Most of the problems we’re seeing could have been managed by restraint and reasonable marketing- it’s not the system.
[2010/09/11 15:08]  CalleCo Boxen: it doesn’t make sense to switch the laying style now after it’s been one way for so long, it just messes up the calculations
[2010/09/11 15:08]  LilLizzie Kidomen: in order for things to be fair for everyone is to simply go with a linear or completely random chance at everything those that want more can buy more turtles and more food just like things are in rl if you want to win you buy more chances you cant win if you dont buy a ticket
[2010/09/11 15:08]  Grim Hathor: Can we please keep teh talking ont eh topic of teh current suggestion, your opinions of it specifically, and the pros/cons to it not already discussed. This is too large a group to have people talking about other issues at the same time
[2010/09/11 15:09]  Lunaria Eclipse: I am in agreement to, fair playin field for all turtlers big or small no advantages cause you have 1000’s of turtles ove rthose who dont.
[2010/09/11 15:09]  Matthew Anthony: I’m going to move on to the next suggestion because I’m not seeing any new pros/cons on that one now  🙂  Making everything linear
[2010/09/11 15:10]  LilLizzie Kidomen: in favor of that it is fair to all concerned each turtle has the same chance at breeding a specail
[2010/09/11 15:10]  Lunaria Eclipse: pros.  All will get them .. Con’s most bigger turtlers will get more and crush the new and smaller breeders.
[2010/09/11 15:11]  Tesseract Toxx: I like a linear rate with different chances to have a certain special and only certain turtles can have certain specials, everything from a 1/7 chance to a 1/100 chance
[2010/09/11 15:11]  Angelina Sinclair: What is a smaller breeder? Seriously.. I hear people defending and protecting the smaller breeder but honestly.. you need at least 30 turtles to do or get anything within a reasonable time frame.
[2010/09/11 15:11]  Matthew Anthony: just a quick note, we’re not voting on ideas, we’re just trying to get the pros and cons of them so that Grim and I may see new ones that we haven’t thought of
[2010/09/11 15:11]  CodeBastard Redgrave: i personally think the decay is fine as is, but maybe could be reset every month or so.
[2010/09/11 15:11]  Ahlanna Aura: Pro – everyone gets a fair shake, based on willingness to expend the dough to keep them breeding, offset hopefully buy the resulting sales, … con:  might get too many and have to nerf the rates a bit?
[2010/09/11 15:11]  Brieanne Bomazi: can i ask a question on that first? What would change as far as getting the specials if you went from one formula to the next? the pro’s would be an equal chance, the concern being the big breeders would still claim its unfair they pay more for the same chance as everyone else.
[2010/09/11 15:12]  Radioactive Rosca: A big breeder pays more for food. He is entitled to have better results, more cosmic planet/moons eggs. I vote for linear
[2010/09/11 15:12]  Destry Alecto: Everything should be linear.. Its only fair….. Thats the Pro… In a Lottery (which that is what this is) everyone should have teh same chance.  Cons: NONE as fairness helps everyone… and makes us all equal… Big breeder,, small and Tiny.
[2010/09/11 15:12]  Brieanne Bomazi: good point Destry.
[2010/09/11 15:13]  Faide Morane: I think a reset of the decay is a good idea, alts will be made regardless…
[2010/09/11 15:13]  CalleCo Boxen: the con i see here is that there will still be complianing no matter what…whether from small breeders saying they can’t get as many, to the big breeders saying there are so many available they end up having to practically give them away to get rid of them…
[2010/09/11 15:13]  Tesseract Toxx: a linear rate would get rid of the alt problems
[2010/09/11 15:13]  Ridley Piers: 100% agree with Destry and no reason for any to use an alt then
[2010/09/11 15:13]  Eclipso Trescothick: Amen Destry: If people want to spend more, so be it, if they dont, they can buy an egg and save the linden on food… it’s not out fault a select few chose to be tight
[2010/09/11 15:13]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: I’m with Destry as well. It needs to be fair to ALL, not big, not small….ALL
[2010/09/11 15:13]  Lunaria Eclipse: but a linear rate would crush smaller turtlers.
[2010/09/11 15:13]  Destry Alecto: Removing Decay also elkiminates people needing or using alts as there is really no substantial advantage..
[2010/09/11 15:13]  Lunaria Eclipse: fair to all
[2010/09/11 15:13]  Jai Thistle: I also agree with Destry
[2010/09/11 15:14]  Arianna Marenwolf: you dont even need an alt, a partner would server the same instance so a moot point on alts
[2010/09/11 15:14]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: no it wouldn’t, not anymore than it does right now Luna
[2010/09/11 15:14]  Angelina Sinclair: What is a small breeder?
[2010/09/11 15:15]  Bettie Heslop: yes it would
[2010/09/11 15:15]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: If everybody gets a 5% or 10% chance, then it’s fair
[2010/09/11 15:15]  Faide Morane: A linear rate would eventually flood the market as well, like with the BS turtles
[2010/09/11 15:15]  Infiniti Mirihi: if every breeding pair of turtles has the same odds, the samepercentage droprate of an earth/cosmic/etc, then an alt will have the same percentage, so the owner of the breeding pair will not matter alt or not, it will be a percentage of the droprate, on all breeding pairs (male:female)
[2010/09/11 15:15]  Merlin Bellic: Pro – if you set the points thing up right every one wins meaning the person can sell the item to the smaller breader so that thay can git more cosmic… Con – just means i have to git more Lindons to by the pill from people like Star and Venus keeping every one happy…
[2010/09/11 15:15]  Eleri Ethaniel: smaller turtlers are already crushed.
[2010/09/11 15:15]  Bettie Heslop: so the smaller breeders would still suffer either way l;ol
[2010/09/11 15:15]  Quantum Landar: I agree with Lunaria, but it should go one step further… NO ONE should be allowed to havew more than 20 turtles. That way there will be no “big breeders” to “crush” the small ones.
[2010/09/11 15:15]  Brieanne Bomazi: the thing is, no matter be it pets, or a game in Sl like tiny empires, people will ALWAYS have alts to try and beat the system. there is no way around it period.
[2010/09/11 15:16]  Dirteh Deed: people would just make alts quantum
[2010/09/11 15:16]  Angelina Sinclair: A smaller breeder can’t do anything, anyway. You need at least 30 turtles to do anything! Hell I got 40 turtles and I can still compete with the big breeders. 😛
[2010/09/11 15:16]  Eleri Ethaniel: and those people know they have a captive market, so they jack the prices up.
[2010/09/11 15:16]  Matthew Anthony: chat lag seems to have eaten my post… I’m not seeing new pros/cons on that, let’s move on to making cosmics more common in general
[2010/09/11 15:17]  Tesseract Toxx: I have 24  turtles and I would say I am a small breeder
[2010/09/11 15:17]  Ahlanna Aura: i’d hate to pay the food bill for them one month though LOL
[2010/09/11 15:17]  Eclipso Trescothick: a linera distribution, with a smaller chance would actually keep the market from flooding. no small breeders would be crushed, you could then buy an egg instead of buying food to produce one and save money in the process.
[2010/09/11 15:17]  Tesseract Toxx: just keeping different specials with different probabilities and a flat rate of return would be fair
[2010/09/11 15:17]  Kzru Bruhl: quantum simpole fact i sould pack up and walk away so would all the breeders i know large and small i have turtles cos they are cute and i loke them you limit how many i have there is no point in half my pens
[2010/09/11 15:17]  Strongpaw Griffis: Short and sweet; Equal chances for all! A trader system for cosmic/specials to get rid of useless turtles that penalise people.
[2010/09/11 15:17]  Destry Alecto: In a lottery if my twin brother buys a ticket he has just as much chance… 🙂  Bottom Line.. alts arent an issue…. small breeders (less than  say 50 turtles) would have as much a chance with their cosmics as the mega breeders.. and just FYI.. I am a SMALL breeder
[2010/09/11 15:17]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: everybody complains about “big breeders” now….so what’s the difference?
[2010/09/11 15:17]  Ridley Piers: Here is an idea control the secondary market, make a vender that you have to use to sell your cosmics with a set price to sell them at so no one can ask the overinflated prices they do
[2010/09/11 15:17]  Infiniti Mirihi: quite simply, the lack of regulations, be it disclosing odds, alts, market pricing etc, is a problem, and without such regulations, alts will happen, problems will arise because there are not pecautions in place (regulations) to prevent it
[2010/09/11 15:18]  GeoMan Pinazzo: Personally I have bought over 100 cosmic eggs from the vendor an had no idea of this system. I feel I have had my lindens ripped from my pocket. When I play a lot machine or anything the ODDS are posted. I feel I have been tricked. I do not believe there are any big breeeders left also all the ones I know have down sized to 40 or less or got out. They are watching this meeting to determine if they will continue. At the same time I seen shelly call star song a liar and seen nothing in my transcripts of any such thing. Shelley owes her and Apoligy…..   The petable group is a CLICK nothing more and when I placed comments that where educational statements I was flamed and shelley did nothing. I believe Mat and Grim have alot to work out and not just what system they have in place.  From marketing to the group and more…..
[2010/09/11 15:18]  Lindsay Pinelli: i would like a chance at getting the other planets. I feel  I have no chances as I have not gotten any and so many others have. It feels like i am doing something wrong and I know i’m not lol
[2010/09/11 15:19]  Lindsay Pinelli: i’ve given up on even trying to get those i have a dead cosmic and i actually don’t care right now lol
[2010/09/11 15:19]  Lunaria Eclipse: yes you are
[2010/09/11 15:20]  Matthew Anthony: ok, guys, I’m starting to see a lot of off-topic posts, let’s please redirect to the pros/cons of making all cosmics more common
[2010/09/11 15:20]  Grim Hathor: Everyone – Last time I am going to say it. Keep your posts in here about the suggestion at hand, your opinon on it, pros and cons not already covered. If you can not do this we will not get through this meeting
[2010/09/11 15:20]  Matthew Anthony: *sighs*  chat lag again… I’m seeing a lot that’s off topic here, let’s please re-focus on the pros/cons of making all cosmics more common
[2010/09/11 15:21]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: Guys, no matter what you do, someone is going to be unhappy. But if you make it so that everyone has the same chance to get the same thing, you’ll lose a lot fewer people
[2010/09/11 15:21]  Tesseract Toxx: regarding the cosmics, people seem to want to get them often  and want them to be worth a lot of lindens, those two are contradictory. pros are that people get more cosmics, cons are that they are worth less in the marketplace
[2010/09/11 15:22]  Brieanne Bomazi: the con to making them more common is that there is no market for them then, they become the same as a basic breeder. Specials are specials. cant have it both ways.
[2010/09/11 15:22]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: They’re worth far less now than they were a month ago
[2010/09/11 15:22]  Ahlanna Aura: Pro of more common, everyone gets a happy dance at the attractor/con: ugh markets will be flooded and specials worth less than cost to feed to breed them
[2010/09/11 15:22]  Brieanne Bomazi: No one made you spend one single linden. if you did so blindly, the fault rests 100% with you. dont blame anyone else for your greed and lack for forsight.
[2010/09/11 15:22]  CalleCo Boxen: pros-yes, people who are having a hard time getting the cosmics now will be able to get them easier…including me 😛 con-the market floods and we have the reverse complaining that things are too easy to get
[2010/09/11 15:22]  Marv Sideshow: personally I love the cosmic line, and cant wait for the next one and the next one, would be cool to see more shine cosmics (not many out there) would be cool too see different planets breed with differnt planet to create somethin else as well
[2010/09/11 15:22]  Eclipso Trescothick: I think the whole petable team owes the community an apology. Knowing that cosmics would eventually decrease to an almost NIL chance of getting cosmics eggs, and not warn us or tell us about it until now, I think that is leaning towards fraud. Had the “Mistake” of not posting how the distribution were set to a few people, this would have gone on for longer, wasting peoples lindens and making you guys Richer……
[2010/09/11 15:22]  LilLizzie Kidomen: i dont care how many if any i get so long as i know i do have a fair and EQUAL shot at getting one as everyone else does
[2010/09/11 15:22]  Arianne Selona: omg
[2010/09/11 15:23]  CalleCo Boxen: but they did tell us about it getting hrder to get one with every one that is laid
[2010/09/11 15:23]  illusions Cisse: how could it be anything other then blindly, none of us knew what the system was
[2010/09/11 15:23]  Serenity Aura: Problem being people want them to be more common now… give it a couple of weeks we’ll be flooded with them. Then everyone becomes bored with them. I think more common is a bad idea.
[2010/09/11 15:23]  Eleri Ethaniel: they *did* tell us.
[2010/09/11 15:23]  Lunaria Eclipse: THEY SAID it from the beginning about the decrease as you get them.
[2010/09/11 15:24]  Lunaria Eclipse: they said it right from the start.
[2010/09/11 15:24]  Brieanne Bomazi: yus they did.
[2010/09/11 15:24]  Matthew Anthony: next up: putting in the FAQ whether something is linear or exponential
[2010/09/11 15:24]  Matthew Anthony: ok, guys, we’re getting off-topic here, so let’s move on tot he next one
[2010/09/11 15:24]  Arianne Selona: who is john galt?
[2010/09/11 15:24]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: ok, but then what about people like Lindsay who aren’t getting anything?
[2010/09/11 15:24]  Eleri Ethaniel: just because you didn’t know the exact numbers, doesn’t mean they lied to you
[2010/09/11 15:25]  Helpless Frog: Note: If specials/cosmics were common then they would no longer be specials.
[2010/09/11 15:25]  CalleCo Boxen: i like the idea you had about waiting for the first 2 or three to be hatched and then adding that to the write up so the mystery is there for a bit, but still people don’t have to wait to breed them to find out
[2010/09/11 15:25]  Ahlanna Aura: Pro you know what to breed for/con will result in linears becoming less targetted and exponential becoming exploinential
[2010/09/11 15:25]  Tesseract Toxx: I think putting in the faq or on a chart on the website the odds and rules of a certain type of special would be a good idea. the only con then is that more common specials don’t go for super high prices at first
[2010/09/11 15:25]  Lunaria Eclipse: they never lied nor decieved they said frome the start about the decrease as you got more.
[2010/09/11 15:25]  Lindsay Pinelli: pros- it would be more encouraging for people to try getting them. I think it would help the market not hurt it. cons. I’m worried that some would try to pull another scam.
[2010/09/11 15:26]  Arianne Selona: From the first day you got turtles… It was a bloody poker hand…
[2010/09/11 15:26]  Ridley Piers: if we stay with the way things are then yes we should know what they are when they are discovered not before
[2010/09/11 15:26]  Destry Alecto: Excactly the SAME amount we are receiveing now but with ZERO exponential decay…
[2010/09/11 15:27]  Faide Morane: Perhaps keep the cosmic decay in place but allow them to be tradered, with a meter that everytime it reaches 100% the decay is reset?
[2010/09/11 15:27]  Matthew Anthony: I’m not seeing any new suggestions on that, so moving on – making it so that anything can lay a cosmic if you have a lot of cosmics in your herd
[2010/09/11 15:27]  Tesseract Toxx: pro cosmics become more common, con cosmics become worthless a lot faster
[2010/09/11 15:27]  Tesseract Toxx: I think only cosmics should have cosmics
[2010/09/11 15:27]  Drifter McGinnis: why is it all about the cosmics and not the other issues that are going on with turtles may l ask
[2010/09/11 15:28]  Bettie Heslop: i agree with tess
[2010/09/11 15:28]  Izina Quandry: what determines “a lot”?
[2010/09/11 15:28]  Kzru Bruhl: tess priety much summed it up for me
[2010/09/11 15:28]  LilLizzie Kidomen: i think in addition to the changes being discussed here a wonderful addition to petable turtles in general would be the addition of a place in the blog or on the petable sim to list any turtles we would like to trade or sell and maybe a minimum pricing standard would help even things out
[2010/09/11 15:28]  Destry Alecto: Do Not make them more common.. just eliminate Exponential decay to make distributionn more fair..
[2010/09/11 15:28]  Merlin Bellic: Seeing that this is going no where and the turtles are going down hill i selling all my turtles for 100L each if any one wants them im me thanks
[2010/09/11 15:28]  ANJILL Pevensey: i agree with Drifter.
[2010/09/11 15:28]  Destry Alecto: Drifter: Delusions of Grandeur and desire to always have CONTROL..
[2010/09/11 15:29]  Ridley Piers: see nothing positvie, cosmics for cosmics
[2010/09/11 15:29]  Tesseract Toxx: other kinds of turtles can have other specials
[2010/09/11 15:29]  Lindsay Pinelli: yeah i see where that can happen too. Like some may take advantage and brag in chat upsetting the ones that haven’t gotten them yet and just cause drama
[2010/09/11 15:29]  CodeBastard Redgrave: that WILL make them more Common, Destry. keep them RARE. hell, i’m even for increasing the decay rate.
[2010/09/11 15:30]  Lunaria Eclipse: lol
[2010/09/11 15:30]  Lindsay Pinelli: act all better and such blah blah lol
[2010/09/11 15:30]  Tesseract Toxx: I think the best thing petable could do would be to consult and economics professor on some of these issues or a professional economist or financial planner
[2010/09/11 15:30]  Lunaria Eclipse: well said, I feel that all deserve a shot at them from new to older turtlers
[2010/09/11 15:30]  Matthew Anthony: btw guys if it wasn’t obvious enough, there is no advertising allowed in here… but please do stay on topic with the current suggestion
[2010/09/11 15:31]  Madison Whelan: ok , im just coming in so. p[erhaps i have this wrong but, if i buy about 20 cosmics and breed out of it about 2 or 3 good eggs be it venus or mars etc. then hwy breed venus and mars etc if you wont get much after that…solution sell th egreta eggs. hope you break even and get rid of the rest till the next line comes out????
[2010/09/11 15:31]  Angelina Sinclair: Well the decay rate encourages multiple things such as: 1) Alts 2) Expiration date with cosmics lines 3) Big breeders reducing their numbers so they can cut their losts.
[2010/09/11 15:32]  Matthew Anthony: I’m not seeing anything new on that one, though, so let’s move on to the next – cosmics coming from shines
[2010/09/11 15:32]  Helpless Frog: Here’s an odd suggestion, not sure how off topic or feasable, why not tie the odds to the actual AGE of the turtles involved, older turtles have increased chances.
[2010/09/11 15:32]  Marv Sideshow: totally think its a good idea Matt, not many shine cosmics
[2010/09/11 15:32]  Brieanne Bomazi: I’d love to have some shine cosmics 🙂
[2010/09/11 15:32]  Lunaria Eclipse: oh me too
[2010/09/11 15:32]  Eleri Ethaniel: pro- bloodlines would increase. Lots of peoples cosmic earths are very closely related.
[2010/09/11 15:33]  Lunaria Eclipse: but if they are past 4th gen can they be shines?
[2010/09/11 15:33]  Bettie Heslop: great idea
[2010/09/11 15:33]  Lindsay Pinelli: Am I understanding the process right or wrong? say you start with 2 cosmics, get a few earths then a venus, Luna and so on. Do your chances get lower with each planet?
[2010/09/11 15:33]  Serenity Aura: but aren’t we supposed to breed shine through generations?
[2010/09/11 15:33]  Matthew Anthony: cosmics already can have shine, but this is specifically related to shine turtles being able to produce earths
[2010/09/11 15:33]  Ridley Piers: I think any “normal” turtles should be able to breed the cosmics starters glows shine whatever
[2010/09/11 15:33]  LilLizzie Kidomen: i am against this as i agree they should not be made more common as that would just drop the value
[2010/09/11 15:33]  Tesseract Toxx: pro is that it makes cosmics more common, con prices drops on more common items
[2010/09/11 15:33]  Marv Sideshow: well i only know of 1 person that has a shine cosmic so i thought it was just massively rare
[2010/09/11 15:33]  Brieanne Bomazi: the con to that is that they would be more common, specials are supposed to be rare.
[2010/09/11 15:33]  CodeBastard Redgrave: noooooooo please do not. i’m with Lil. i worked HARD to get even a little shine on my cosmics, it should stay this way.
[2010/09/11 15:34]  Lunaria Eclipse: no it means you wont get as many earths ..if you got 10 you will get less born to you then mars if you get say 5 the chances of more slim down it doesnt decrease your odds of getting anything new just as you get them it decreased the ods of getting that particular one
[2010/09/11 15:34]  Serenity Aura: shine is something i’d like to work up to… if we make it that shine turtles can have cosmics. Well thats something taken a way from me and many others. Totally against it!
[2010/09/11 15:34]  Matthew Anthony: next suggestion to discuss – keeping the exponential decay where it is now, but have a minimum value that it goes to
[2010/09/11 15:35]  Ridley Piers: to breed cosmics starter( the ones we buy for 250) yes earth and other no
[2010/09/11 15:35]  Brieanne Bomazi: Matt how would that make a difference? I (and i know others too) that the math is way beyind me.
[2010/09/11 15:35]  Brieanne Bomazi: beyond*
[2010/09/11 15:35]  Eleri Ethaniel: pro is we wouldn’t have to make flow charts to figure out how to get non-inbred cosmics.
[2010/09/11 15:35]  Eclipso Trescothick: so a exponential decay that turns linear Matthew?
[2010/09/11 15:35]  Eleri Ethaniel: what Bri said- Buh?
[2010/09/11 15:35]  CodeBastard Redgrave: it’s possible Serenity, i’ll show you how.
[2010/09/11 15:35]  Matthew Anthony: Brieanne – once it reached a certain point (just out of the air, I’ll grab the number 5), it would turn linear
[2010/09/11 15:36]  Brieanne Bomazi: ok, that makes sense, thanks Matt 🙂
[2010/09/11 15:36]  Eleri Ethaniel: ah
[2010/09/11 15:36]  Serenity Aura: oh i know it’s possible Codie… just don’t like the idea of shine turtles making cosmics 🙂
[2010/09/11 15:37]  Ahlanna Aura: Pro: cant think of one, still cutting off your most loyal customers to a low limit and feeling forced to find alt’ternatives to continue their lines or to bump production to offset the cost of food to breed them to that point
[2010/09/11 15:37]  CalleCo Boxen: i gotta say, if the min number is small enough, i wouldn’t see a problem with it, but if it’s too high, then there really isn’t a point to the decay in the first place
[2010/09/11 15:37]  Lunaria Eclipse: yeah I like the idea of that and no dont want tshines to make cosmics but would like cosmics to make shines haha
[2010/09/11 15:37]  CalleCo Boxen: but that would only be to make the people who don’t like decay happy…not cause i want it…lol
[2010/09/11 15:38]  LilLizzie Kidomen: against .. i dont feel that any decay is a fair process and i feel that the playing field should be equal and that means that if you buy more tickets you get more chances.
[2010/09/11 15:38]  Matthew Anthony: next suggestion – allowing cosmic + anything else to produce Earth
[2010/09/11 15:38]  Serenity Aura: Basically it says don’t have more turtles as it’s completely pointless 😉
[2010/09/11 15:38]  Madison Whelan: Why do we want cosmics to make shines …we already make shines a shine is a shine
[2010/09/11 15:38]  Madison Whelan: low med and high
[2010/09/11 15:39]  Lunaria Eclipse: the decayin makes it fair for all who are breeding
[2010/09/11 15:39]  Madison Whelan: whats after that if it comes from regular
[2010/09/11 15:39]  CodeBastard Redgrave: against: there’s already much Earths around
[2010/09/11 15:39]  Madison Whelan: specioals or cosmics
[2010/09/11 15:39]  Dominica Somerset: i dont have a problem with the system right now ty
[2010/09/11 15:39]  CalleCo Boxen: pro-same as all the other suggestions, makes them easier to get for everyone, con-makes them easier to get making them not so special anymore
[2010/09/11 15:40]  Destry Alecto: No the decay makes it MORE fair for small breeders….. in order to hook them into Turtles… decay is not truly random… a lottery should be totally random…. with no exponential decay..
[2010/09/11 15:40]  Ahlanna Aura: Pro; would expand the lines and available turtles to improve lines / cons; depends, is exploitnential decay still in play?
[2010/09/11 15:40]  LilLizzie Kidomen: no luna it makes it tilted towards the pnes who dont have many turtles.. what part of if you line it up turtle for turlte your turtles have more chances to get one than mine do
[2010/09/11 15:41]  LilLizzie Kidomen: that is just plain not fair
[2010/09/11 15:41]  Matthew Anthony: ok guys, we’re not on the topic of decay vs linear anymore – please re-focus on the new topic  🙂
[2010/09/11 15:41]  Lunaria Eclipse: not with the decay the more i get the less chance i get at getting them…just like you
[2010/09/11 15:41]  Lunaria Eclipse: kk sorry
[2010/09/11 15:41]  Ridley Piers: we dont need more ways to get eartjs we have enought as it is
[2010/09/11 15:42]  Lunaria Eclipse: I am happy with just the norms and the cosmics giving us the beginnings of the series
[2010/09/11 15:42]  LilLizzie Kidomen: it isnt about the breeder its about the turtles why should one turtle be more inclined to produce than another?
[2010/09/11 15:42]  Matthew Anthony: and of course right as I say that, we move on to the next topic, changing nothing
[2010/09/11 15:42]  Serenity Aura: but why should the chance be the same if Lizzie has 3X more turtles? and in turn is paying X3 more in food bills
[2010/09/11 15:42]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: Changing nothing will cripple your business
[2010/09/11 15:42]  Lunaria Eclipse: the only con i see to not changing anything is alt control.
[2010/09/11 15:42]  Tesseract Toxx: pros of changing nothing is that it’s easy, cons is that people are still majorly pissed
[2010/09/11 15:43]  Ahlanna Aura: Pro: to change nothing we all know where we stand and can stop feeding the beast now/ con: i want to keep feeding the beast please
[2010/09/11 15:43]  Serenity Aura: lol Ahlanna
[2010/09/11 15:43]  CalleCo Boxen: pros-makes it easy on you guys, you won’t have to do anything, and those of us happy with it as it is will stay happy-cons-those that don’t like it, well, will remain unhappy and quite possibly leave, making the market smaller possibly
[2010/09/11 15:43]  Lady Carminucci: it is random, no matter how many turtles you have. i only had 7 turtles out 2 being cosmics and i got a venus
[2010/09/11 15:43]  CodeBastard Redgrave: changing nothing is what i vote for. Cosmics are fine this way IMOHO. changing anything with them will flood the market, and make even less happy people.
[2010/09/11 15:43]  Kzru Bruhl: did i miss my chance to spap for capping the decay?
[2010/09/11 15:43]  LilLizzie Kidomen: the current system is unfair i know with that system i will definatly reduce my numbers there fore save food costs because my turtles are worthless and do nothing but connsume
[2010/09/11 15:44]  Matthew Anthony: I think we’re kind of beating a dead horse with this one, so we’ll move on again
[2010/09/11 15:44]  Matthew Anthony: next suggestion was the high-cost point item that removes decay from one specific turtle
[2010/09/11 15:44]  Serenity Aura: The best solution is for everyone to become small breeders. Then it becomes fair. But not sure thats the solution we’re looking for :S
[2010/09/11 15:45]  Lunaria Eclipse: I guess i could go for that but then the big breeders have an advantage over the smaller ones that do not have enough turtles to produce the points to ge tthe item
[2010/09/11 15:45]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: I can’t see any pros for that. The con is that once done, you’re stuck with that specific turtle
[2010/09/11 15:45]  Bettie Heslop: can i ask what is a small breeder how many turts ?
[2010/09/11 15:46]  Izina Quandry: Im not sure thats… feasible? How do you know which turtle has decayed and by how much and for which species it can breed
[2010/09/11 15:46]  Lunaria Eclipse: i dunno…i consider myself medium i ahve about 100
[2010/09/11 15:46]  Ridley Piers: removes it for a certain amount of time or forever, and would that mean that turtle now works linear?
[2010/09/11 15:46]  Grim Hathor: Indeed this one would be technically very challenging
[2010/09/11 15:46]  Bettie Heslop: well im a small then and i dont get half as many if any than the big breeders lolol thats the way it is
[2010/09/11 15:46]  Matthew Anthony: this one remember we marked as very close to technically impossible, and honestly it’s not something we really want to try to tackle because of that, but it was suggested
[2010/09/11 15:46]  Angelina Sinclair: Yea that’s what I’ve asked.. because anyone who has under 20 turtles can’t get anything… a smaller breeder gets nothing anyway.. so why are we concern about them again?
[2010/09/11 15:46]  LilLizzie Kidomen: mark, how is that technically possible as your number are based on the breeder now NOT the turtles wouldnt that then mean a revamp of the whole system to make it turtle based?
[2010/09/11 15:47]  Strongpaw Griffis: Pointless since there is no way of knowing that about a turtle
[2010/09/11 15:47]  CalleCo Boxen: yeah..there are too many variables that would have to be discussed and thought of before really having an opinion on this one..but of all of them, depending on how it wouldd be done, this has the most pros and least cons for me
[2010/09/11 15:47]  Ahlanna Aura: yea im not sure i can remember who got what and when anyway.. i cant remember my name most days
[2010/09/11 15:47]  Matthew Anthony: yes, LilLizzie, it really would (I’m assuming you meant Matthew, not Mark hehe), which is why it’s close to technically impossible
[2010/09/11 15:47]  LilLizzie Kidomen: sorry long day
[2010/09/11 15:47]  Matthew Anthony: np  🙂
[2010/09/11 15:47]  Lunaria Eclipse: man im tired
[2010/09/11 15:48]  Matthew Anthony: last suggestion was to reset the decay levels periodically
[2010/09/11 15:48]  Ridley Piers: I would rather see a one time high point purchase of each planet as a sink than that
[2010/09/11 15:48]  Bettie Heslop: me too been up 21 hrs now waitng to get in on the chat hahahahahah
[2010/09/11 15:48]  Faide Morane: I re-suggest….  keep the cosmic decay in place but allow them to be tradered, with a meter that everytime it reaches 100% the decay is reset?
[2010/09/11 15:48]  Bettie Heslop: i agree on that if the decay has to stay :)))))
[2010/09/11 15:48]  CalleCo Boxen: pros-allows those that hate decay to be happy, cons-really makes the point of it being decay a moot point
[2010/09/11 15:49]  Bettie Heslop: but would like to see it gone :))))
[2010/09/11 15:49]  Ahlanna Aura: Pro: would incentify people to keep going and know they have a chance/Con: must be random or unpublished resets because knowing when would still cause the alt issue
[2010/09/11 15:49]  LilLizzie Kidomen: if the system were turtle based none of these issues would be issues however it would raise new issues in that when a person sells a turtle that has been decayed then the new owner would have no chance at all of a special therefore i dont see this as a doable thing at all
[2010/09/11 15:49]  Ginger Kenin: i think small breeder is maybe under 50?
[2010/09/11 15:50]  Kzru Bruhl pulls a knife and heas for the pens need to kill 3
[2010/09/11 15:50]  Bettie Heslop: lmaooooo kzru
[2010/09/11 15:50]  Sassy Hendrassen: lol
[2010/09/11 15:50]  Danielle Stormcrow: *takes Kz’s knife* nu uh.. and you stay away from mine!
[2010/09/11 15:50]  Matthew Anthony: I think that wraps up the discussion, thanks guys  🙂  there have been some new suggestions that have come out from this
[2010/09/11 15:51]  Kzru Bruhl: ok as i missed it
[2010/09/11 15:51]  Kzru Bruhl: if you keep it decreasing with nothing to stop it doing so eventualy i will just get rid of cosmice as worth nothing as there will be no way to get anytihng frop them capping them to x perperson will do the same. if you make it a equil chance it would be fairer to the big breeders who do pay alot of money in. if you keep the diminishing returnes and but a bace line in then its the middle grund the new people get some thing nice and the older breeders  still get enough to keep them in the game and not walking away#
[2010/09/11 15:51]  Angelina Sinclair: Any suggestions your considering?
[2010/09/11 15:51]  Matthew Anthony: we’re not announcing anything today, but we will do a post in the next few days with what the plan is going forward  🙂
[2010/09/11 15:51]  Lunaria Eclipse: All  i know is this I love my turtles ..thank you both for the enjoyment i get from them every day and thank you for all you do for us.
[2010/09/11 15:51]  Matthew Anthony: we’re going to discuss them all over the next few days, Angelina, at further length
[2010/09/11 15:51]  Smokey Seelowe: ty Matt and Grimm
[2010/09/11 15:51]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: Thank you for at least hearing us out
[2010/09/11 15:51]  Kzru Bruhl: sorry didnt realise you hd covered it *blushes* and i wanted to use that spam
[2010/09/11 15:52]  Matthew Anthony: and miracle of miracles, I only crashed twice!  *cheers*
[2010/09/11 15:52]  CalleCo Boxen: lol
[2010/09/11 15:52]  Lunaria Eclipse: lol
[2010/09/11 15:52]  Grim Hathor: Thank you all for participating, and giving your opinions
[2010/09/11 15:52]  Grim Hathor: And suggestions,a nd concerns, etc 8)
[2010/09/11 15:52]  Lunaria Eclipse: what time is the memorial? and can i leave this group lol no room
[2010/09/11 15:52]  Venus Dumpling: your wrong on the cons for this idea  Next up is a high cost point item that removes decay from one specific turtle.  While not technically impossible, it would be the most technically-difficult thing on this list.  The upside to this is that it would create a point sink.  The downside is that it has the possibility to upset smaller breeders who can’t afford to get this point item en masse, and therefore wouldn’t have a chance to participate in the marketplace if the decay stays how it is then the smaller or new breeders already have the advantage without the point item not only would people not need alts now but the points go down and big breeders are happy to. Small breeders are happy because they have an advantage big breeders dont anyway
[2010/09/11 15:52]  Grim Hathor: We have taken a few things away from thsi for sure
[2010/09/11 15:53]  Venus Dumpling: another pro you didnt mention is you can have the trader item no transfer but in the market place that turtle is now sellable with the point item attached so smaller breeders can buy the turtle and get even better odds 😀
[2010/09/11 15:53]  Matthew Anthony: Madame Maracas’ memorial service is in just over an hour
[2010/09/11 15:53]  Lunaria Eclipse: ty Mat
[2010/09/11 15:53]  Matthew Anthony: yw
[2010/09/11 15:53]  Venus Dumpling: sorry if i missed it but just got back
[2010/09/11 15:54]  Danielle Stormcrow: Thank you guys, I had to grocery shop for myRL kids.. their food bill is significantly less than my turtles, but still they have to be fed. *laughs*
[2010/09/11 15:57]  Merlin Bellic: ok well all have fun thay tryed to kick me out thanks for the fun 🙂

[2010/09/11 12:18]  Grim Hathor: Yay chat lag – Test[2010/09/11 12:18]  Grim Hathor: Hello turtlers. We are holding this meeting today about the distribution of cosmic turtles. Let us first apologize for letting the situation get to a boiling point, rather than addressing it sooner. We had the best of intentions when designing and planning the cosmic distribution; however in practice it has not been received like we had hoped. Once again we are forced to face the fact that we are not psychic, lol.
[2010/09/11 12:20]  Wolfgar Dragonash: ok iam in[2010/09/11 12:21]  Grim Hathor: Before we continue our introduction to the issues at hand I would like to layout some ground rules for this meeting. This meeting will be structured, logical, organized, and rational.
[2010/09/11 12:21]  Grim Hathor: 20 min Introduction
30 min Speakers 1 at a time explaining concerns (Not solutions)
30 min Open group discussing concerns (Not solutions)
30 min Speakers 1 at a time explaining suggested solutions (Brainstorming)
30 min Open group discussing solutions (Brainstorming)
1 hour Open group discussing pros and cons of suggested solutions
40 minutes Free time (for being flexible)
[2010/09/11 12:23]  Grim Hathor: We ask that during the concerns section you not critique concerns. The point is to get all concerns and points of view out there. You may speak about what you do, or do not like, about the current system. This isn’t about who is right and who is wrong, it is about getting a clear idea of what people do and do not like about the system as it is.
[2010/09/11 12:24]  Grim Hathor: We ask that during the suggestions section you not critique suggestions.. The point of this is to brainstorm different ideas. We have a big group here, let’s make use of our combined creativity to see what out of the box ideas we can generate.
[2010/09/11 12:24]  Grim Hathor: If anyone is critical of another person’s thoughts or ideas during the concerns and solutions sections, you will be removed from the group.
[2010/09/11 12:25]  Grim Hathor: The last section, weighing the pros and cons, is the appropriate time to figure out what the good and bad of each suggested solution is. This IS the time to be critical of the ideas (not the persons suggesting them, the ideas themselves). If you cannot handle an idea of yours being analyzed and critiqued then you should leave during this section.
[2010/09/11 12:25]  Grim Hathor: Again, this should be analyzing the suggestions, not the people making them. Calling a suggestion “stupid” or putting it down is not the point – we want reasons and logic. If we feel someone is becoming offensive they will get 1 warning. If they repeat they will be removed. If you would like to speak during
one of the speaking segments, please contact me (Grim Hathor) with which segment you want to speak during, and your topic.
[2010/09/11 12:25]  Grim Hathor: If, at any time during the open discussions, the group becomes chaotic with people trying to talk over each other, we will lock down chat.
[2010/09/11 12:26]  Grim Hathor: During the 1 speaker at a time sections, there may be more people wanting to speak then time available. We will be limiting speakers to 2 minutes if there is a great deal wanting to speak. We will also be filtering speakers for redundancy. If someone has already said they do not like a certain aspect, we don’t need 5 others repeating the exact same concern during this time. Same for those that may want to speak to a benefit of the current system.
[2010/09/11 12:28]  Grim Hathor: Now that we have the ground rules established, let us finish introducing the topic at hand – Cosmic Distribution. We feel that for the concerns and suggestions to be fully understood, it will help to have an idea of where the system stands now.
[2010/09/11 12:30]  Grim Hathor: we are breaking the speaking up into two topics. After we’ve posted the guidlines let me know which you want to speak during, and your topic 8)[2010/09/11 12:30]  Grim Hathor: Currently, there are a few different types of cosmic links. The first link we will be explaining is Planet to Planet. An example of this link is two earth turtles breeding a mars. Normal to Earth also falls in this group. This link, is currently, exponentially decaying. This means that every time a planet is laid, such as a mars, the chance of getting another one decreases.
[2010/09/11 12:31]  Grim Hathor: In setting it up this way, it was our hope that it would stimulate the market. By Planets being more limited, but moons being more unlimited, we had hoped that it would encourage the purchasing of planets from other players, to amass a breeding stock to use for breeding moons. Aka Nobody gets a TON of planets, so those that want a lot of them have to buy from smaller players… but then once you have a ton of planets, you are able to use those to breed moons (including some rather rare ones) which would then be desirable on the marketplace.
[2010/09/11 12:32]  Grim Hathor: And that is the end of the intro. Going to start opening the floor to speakers, however not many lined up (so if you want your chance, IM me)[2010/09/11 12:32]  Matthew Anthony: Before we hop into other people speaking, I just want to mention that my motherboard and video card have gone bad, so I’ll be crashing frequently[2010/09/11 12:33]  Matthew Anthony: Grim and I are in a Skype call, so he’ll be letting me know what goes on while I’m rebooting, and I’ll be popping back in a soon as I can be each time I crash  :-)[2010/09/11 12:33]  Grim Hathor: Also, you can talk during both concerns and suggestions if you would like[2010/09/11 12:35]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: Thank you Grim[2010/09/11 12:35]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: While the notecard regarding Grim’s comments on the cosmics delivery was probably not meant to go around – it did. When I read it, my immediate reaction to it was how angry I would be to find out that I had been trying and trying to breed for a certain planet and yet did not fall into the correct “category” to have that planet/moon/whatever delivered to me.[2010/09/11 12:36]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: It is my feeling that everyone should have an equal opportunity to receive ALL planets/moons, as they do the birthstones. To limit delivery by breeder size (not individuals, I get that), it’s somewhat deceptive, and discouraging.[2010/09/11 12:36]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: That is my biggest concern here today. Can you address this?[2010/09/11 12:37]  Matthew Anthony: HoneyBear, have you had a chance to read through blog post I did yesterday about the topic?[2010/09/11 12:37]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: I did Matt[2010/09/11 12:37]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: I don’t feel it adequately covered this particular topic[2010/09/11 12:37]  Matthew Anthony: OK.  Let me just re-iterate a couple of things from that that may not have come through correctly in that original notecard[2010/09/11 12:37]  Matthew Anthony: There is absolutely nothing that is limited by how many turtles someone has[2010/09/11 12:38]  Matthew Anthony: The only limiting factor is how many of a particular planet you have had before.  This number is specific to each planet, not in total[2010/09/11 12:38]  Matthew Anthony: Whether you have 5 turtles or 5,000 turtles, you can get the exact same things[2010/09/11 12:38]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: So the numbers of planets are limited through the delivery system?[2010/09/11 12:39]  Matthew Anthony: Correct, the exponential decay decreases the target number to get that special with each of that type that you get[2010/09/11 12:39]  Matthew Anthony: Every single one is available to breeders of every size[2010/09/11 12:39]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: ok, that is certainly different than the impression the notecard delivered[2010/09/11 12:40]  Matthew Anthony: I think a part of that honestly is because that notecard was directed at one particular circumstance  🙂  when that’s the case, it’s very easy to mis-word them for other circumstances[2010/09/11 12:40]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: If that is in fact the case, then I’m done for now[2010/09/11 12:40]  Lucy Lourbridge: it would have been nice to know this going in… some people had hundreds of cosmics trying to get a planet.. .spending hundreds of lindens on food.. not knowing that their chance was exponentially decreased[2010/09/11 12:41]  Matthew Anthony: if we were to have the system passively monitor how many turtles everyone had (passive in this case meaning without active input from us), our server woudl be crippled[2010/09/11 12:41]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: Ah, may I address that portion?[2010/09/11 12:41]  Matthew Anthony: Lucy, I’m guessing you just came in… if you’d like to express concerns, please IM Grim and he’ll add you to the list  🙂  we’re going one at a time at this point to try to keep it orderly[2010/09/11 12:41]  Matthew Anthony: sure thing  :-)[2010/09/11 12:42]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: I think it’s very feasible that there can be a formula that does that very thing, without having to go to your server at all[2010/09/11 12:42]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: something along the lines of IF breeder X = <200, THEN Makemake, jupiter, whatever[2010/09/11 12:43]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: So, that is why I stayed upset, even after your posting[2010/09/11 12:43]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: and is it remotely possible that your coding has caused something along these lines without you realizing it?[2010/09/11 12:43]  Grim Hathor: Well Honey, for 1 we dont want it to be like that… but there is also the tecnical side – that actually very much would have to go to our server to figure out how many turtles a breeder has – since amny dont keep all their turtles on the same sim[2010/09/11 12:43]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: Because I have been tracking who gets what, and I IM and ask their herd size[2010/09/11 12:43]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: I can SEE a difference[2010/09/11 12:45]  Grim Hathor: In a random system there will be lots of variation and strange random patterns… but it really would be an extremely weird cirumstance which could cause that without us tabluting the counts anywhere in teh code. Each egg acts as a unique event, and pulls from a list of how many of that type you’ve already had born. This list is seperate fromt eh general turtle list[2010/09/11 12:46]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: OK[2010/09/11 12:46]  Matthew Anthony: Really, the only way to detect that in-world would be with an llSensor event, which can only detect the 16 closest objects[2010/09/11 12:46]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: I’ll stop at the moment[2010/09/11 12:47]  Grim Hathor: Again, this concern part is not at all trying to be critical… were trying to find the concerns so my reply is in no way meant to invalidate your concern. At this time matt and I are just trying to privde clarification ont he system 8)[2010/09/11 12:47]  Grim Hathor: Alright well, obviouslly by the length we’ve not got a ton queued up so the 2 minute rule isnt being enforced 8)[2010/09/11 12:48]  Grim Hathor: Eclipso Tresothick, you have the floor[2010/09/11 12:49]  Eclipso Trescothick: Thank you. First of all, you guys have stated that there is an exponetially decaying formula correct? This in turns makes is so we can less and less of each egg. However, when cosmics started out, it was said that cosmic eggs would have a constant chance of getting those eggs. That formular was supposed to have been applied to normals making cosmics earths only… why is this?[2010/09/11 12:50]  Eclipso Trescothick: By that I mean, eggs from starters we supposed to give a constant chance, where eggs from normal non-shine, non-gloe were not.[2010/09/11 12:50]  Grim Hathor: The onyl egg we said would have a consistent chance was teh cosmic starters on their sale sign. We never said that about normals getting earths[2010/09/11 12:52]  Grim Hathor: correct, earths from staters and earths from normals work, currently, on 2 very different system[2010/09/11 12:52]  Eclipso Trescothick: But it’s safe to say that everyone will have assumed that the offsprings of starters would have had those chances too, nowheere was it advertised to people that their ofsprings would have an expotentially decaying chance.[2010/09/11 12:53]  Grim Hathor: you are saying the normal eggs that starters lay?[2010/09/11 12:54]  Grim Hathor: Also as a general note – getting more requesting to speak as time goes on – chat lag is making the timelines hard *grr SL*[2010/09/11 12:54]  Eclipso Trescothick: If we were told that, most people would have stopped breeding cosmics and stuck with specials and birthstones, or made alts to buy cosmics, and every so often make a new alt to keep chances up (which by the way, can you please explain how their distrubition work please?)[2010/09/11 12:54]  Eclipso Trescothick: I meant, eggs that starters lay, Grim.[2010/09/11 12:55]  Matthew Anthony: I’m not sure I’m understanding you clearly, Eclipso – the cosmic starters have a linear chance to lay earths[2010/09/11 12:55]  Eclipso Trescothick: yes, but their offsprings don’t Mathew, we were not told of this.[2010/09/11 12:55]  Matthew Anthony: Normals have a declining chance to lay earths – once it reaches that point, it doesn’t matter if the earth came from a normal or a cosmic starter[2010/09/11 12:56]  Matthew Anthony: There was nothing said either way because it was a completely new system.  Whenever someone asked us how it worked, we explained “consistent”[2010/09/11 12:57]  Matthew Anthony: We did say in the FAQ that there was a mix of ways that different eggs would be laid, with some being more fair for large and small breeders[2010/09/11 12:58]  Matthew Anthony: (6th question on the FAQ for reference)[2010/09/11 12:59]  Eclipso Trescothick: Matthew, to most people cosistent means the same thing over and over.  We had no idea of knowing that the consistence in this would tbe the consistant decline…[2010/09/11 12:59]  Grim Hathor: Alright, in the interest of giving some more chances to speak I am going to cut it off here. Your concern is recognized Eclipso.[2010/09/11 12:59]  Grim Hathor: Infiniti Mirhi, you have teh floor[2010/09/11 12:59]  Infiniti Mirihi: Thank you, I’ll be brief and post it all at once:[2010/09/11 13:00]  Infiniti Mirihi: Questions:
1.) What are the odds of receiving a Cosmic? 2.) Why are the odds not disclosed? 3.) What is the algorithm used (exponetially decaying system)?
Concerns:  By not releasing the odds of receiving a Cosmic (or any Special, or even the odds of a color or shine) the marketing of the Petable Turtles has the sense/”feel” of a lottery, without the regulations of disclosing the odds.  This leads many, not just me, to feel “taken” as if caught up in a scam.[2010/09/11 13:02]  Grim Hathor: While we are willing to discuss and provide information on HOW they are distributed, we never have and never will give exact odds of getting a turtle. Doing so takes away some of the mystery, and game element of it. (It is like teh difference ina  game that tells you that you have 37 strength, and one that tells you that you are “Weak”)[2010/09/11 13:02]  Grim Hathor: Knowing the exact odds for a paticular one is not, I believe, required for a discussion on the fairness of the distribution[2010/09/11 13:04]  Infiniti Mirihi: but it does lead to the feeling of being “had” …  and issues that bring us to this discussion[2010/09/11 13:05]  Grim Hathor: Again, I am not here to criticize so I do accept your concern. During the pros and cons section we can as a group further discuss the benfits and downsides 8)[2010/09/11 13:05]  Grim Hathor: Venus dumpling, you have teh floor[2010/09/11 13:06]  Venus Dumpling: If this is true that your formula does not go by how many turtles each person has but how many of that particular egg they have had, then we have a declining chance from there….Then when does that expire? Or does it? If i Leave turtles for an extended time and have sold them all. Now a few months later i come back. But i wasted my time and money because starting over the system still sees i have already had so many now i cant get anymore myself. I have to buy them right?[2010/09/11 13:07]  Venus Dumpling: It just ends up making you richer because i have to buy so much food for a declining change?[2010/09/11 13:08]  Grim Hathor: It never hard caps, so you could still get them.. however your chances would indeed still be diminished from before. So like if you had 5 earths, quit, and came back, your earths chance would still be diminished (though mars is a compeltely seperate number, as are all teh cosmics)[2010/09/11 13:09]  Grim Hathor: Do you have another concern before we move to the next speaker?[2010/09/11 13:09]  Venus Dumpling: I think that we should all have the same odds it just isnt fair[2010/09/11 13:10]  Venus Dumpling: i dont know if you see my poi9nt there Grim[2010/09/11 13:10]  Venus Dumpling: You never answered my point of you making more off food[2010/09/11 13:11]  Grim Hathor: Indeed I understand the point . right now we are just getting the concerns out there though (not trying to avoid talking about them, just trying to keep to teh structure of the meeting)[2010/09/11 13:11]  Grim Hathor: Angelina Sinclair, you have teh floor[2010/09/11 13:15]  Angelina Sinclair: Well I have a concern about exceptional decay and how with the planets there is that decay but not with the moons, comets or whatever. It took Geo nearly forever to get a luna from his cosmic turtles. The chances are so slim I don’t see a point to bother. So my concern is why the decay with planets to planets and not with moons when I feel it should be the other way around.[2010/09/11 13:16]  Grim Hathor: So kinda 2 concerns there (moon rarity) and wanting the methods reversed (which is somewhat a suggestion as well). Boith noted[2010/09/11 13:17]  Grim Hathor: Ok, I have ben taking notes of the concerns. At this point we are going to open teyh group chat up (bear with us, takes a bit to get everyone). Again this should be more of a brainstorming format – lets just get allt eh concerns out there[2010/09/11 13:20]  Dominica Somerset: so we can talk now[2010/09/11 13:21]  Grim Hathor: Yes please, let us hear all teh concerns about cosmics[2010/09/11 13:21]  Eleri Ethaniel: *raises hand*[2010/09/11 13:21]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: Oh, chat’s open…..So, tell me, what would be the problem with a delivery system that gives everyone the same chances for each planet/moon?[2010/09/11 13:21]  Grim Hathor: Honey – This is not the suggestions or pro/con portion… lets just get teh concerns out there[2010/09/11 13:22]  Grim Hathor: Who else has a concern about cosmics not already mentioned?[2010/09/11 13:22]  Eclipso Trescothick: My concern is that this system only makes You and Matthew richer, yet penalises all of us over time, by gettign less and less.[2010/09/11 13:22]  Eleri Ethaniel: The exponential decay was posted early one, wasn’t it?[2010/09/11 13:22]  Eleri Ethaniel: early on[2010/09/11 13:23]  Ahlanna Aura: Greetings, thank you .. my concern is that list of what we’ve received in the past.  Yes, you’ve been given this x special cosmic xx times before, then what?  It seems like it will eventually go to nill chance of getting a moon or other cosmic rare, no matter how many specials you are breeding and feeding.. do you go to near nill and how is that fair if you are willing to feed them?[2010/09/11 13:23]  Matthew Anthony: I’ve noted that idea as a suggestion and we’ll come back to it later  :-)[2010/09/11 13:23]  Ridley Piers: I personally believe the rate at which these planets are comming to us  is WAY to slow. I can somewhat understand the limit to the number of them but why so slow in comming to us?[2010/09/11 13:23]  Arianna Marenwolf: I bred Cosmics to 4th generation and got nothing from them but more eggs[2010/09/11 13:23]  Angelina Sinclair: Well.. I’m wondering.. why cater to the small breeders? This decay will only force people to create alts, especially now since everyone knows.[2010/09/11 13:23]  LilLizzie Kidomen: ok my concern is this with the decay system then the stats you gave for recieving earths from starters were bogus, as i got two earths from plains and have gotten nothing whatso ever from the 7 cosmic starters i paid for. so i did nothing more than waste money on buying the starters and feeding them as they are now useless and wont breed anything at all[2010/09/11 13:24]  Marv Sideshow: Ahlanna thats my exact question too[2010/09/11 13:25]  CalleCo Boxen: i have to say, i don’t have any concerns at all, i am a small to medium sized breeder, and have very few cosmics, but as i know that i have the exact same chance as the larger breeders to get the exact same things, then i am ok with it, i like that the cosmics are not going to be bred till they are worth nothing[2010/09/11 13:25]  Destry Alecto: I think that is a concern….. basically most of our concerns start with that “decay” system is patently unfair and limits distribution.  It is a Very “visible” hand guiding the market… a TRULY random system is more fair..[2010/09/11 13:25]  GeoMan Pinazzo: ====== COST ==== The system of removing the chances from a person each time they have mars and so on works out to more food and more money. @@@@ Where you aware of this? @@@@[2010/09/11 13:25]  Lunaria Eclipse: Ok here is my opNot me I’m happy got a mercury this morning..still want my Luna. so will wait for the next portion to open my mouth[2010/09/11 13:26]  Grim Hathor: Indeed antoher good concern Angelina – that teh system as is encourages alting[2010/09/11 13:26]  Lunaria Eclipse: Same with Me Cal Im happy with it all[2010/09/11 13:27]  Eleri Ethaniel: My issue is going and seeing places with dozens of cosmics for sale, at high prices, and I can’t keep up or compete. It bothers me to hear that this is unfair to larger breeders, when some seem to have more cosmics than I’ll ever get.[2010/09/11 13:27]  Venus Dumpling: If i had known all this i would not have spent so much on starter eggs and then earths[2010/09/11 13:27]  Lunaria Eclipse: Chat lag[2010/09/11 13:28]  Lucian Mixemup: My only comment is this… i want to thank Grim & Matt for this opportunity to vocalize our concerns…. you guys rock!!!  I wish people would keep in mind that there is NO way to please everyone in this matter…. everyone feels they have the right idea …. but may not see everything that Grim & Matt have to consider…. theyve made awesome choices and decisions in the past and I have comlete faith they will do whats right for everyone…not just one person or group![2010/09/11 13:28]  CalleCo Boxen does agree with Eleri though, even if it is kind of opposite to what she said[2010/09/11 13:28]  Venus Dumpling: and why do they keep saying some are geared to larg breeders and some to small when earlier Matt said it dont count our turtles i guess it is just confusing why mention breeder size at all?[2010/09/11 13:28]  Lindsay Pinelli: I have a concern as well[2010/09/11 13:29]  Eclipso Trescothick: I think the biggest concern Grim and Mathew is THIS. This system is not fair, where as a linear and truly random one would be. This system in the end will only be good to make you guys money.[2010/09/11 13:29]  Lunaria Eclipse: bravo. Venus i heard that too.[2010/09/11 13:29]  Arianna Marenwolf: If I had known this I would never have joined Turtles[2010/09/11 13:29]  Radioactive Rosca: I have the same oppinion as Eclipso[2010/09/11 13:30]  Eleri Ethaniel: maybe part of the problem isn’t the system, but people going and buying and breeding as much and as fast as they can to be first/best.[2010/09/11 13:30]  Destry Alecto: Here Here Eclipso……. Thats the bottom Line…. Only Truly Random is fair… why are you attemtping to control the market?[2010/09/11 13:30]  GeoMan Pinazzo agree’s with Eclipso[2010/09/11 13:30]  Sassy Hendrassen: you know i keep reading this thing about favoring smaller breeders. well some of my lil shells must have missed that memo. i have gotten very few cosmics. as a matter of fact i got the first earth from normals right off then had to wait weeks to another.[2010/09/11 13:30]  Quantum Landar: Eleri, “all those cosmics” is giving them NO ADVANTAGE – only costing way too much to feed[2010/09/11 13:30]  Strongpaw Griffis: So if I understand this correctly. I have have 10 earths in all and I got male cursed and 8 of them are male and 2 are female i’m now forever penalised by non productive turtles?[2010/09/11 13:31]  Marv Sideshow: food prices have to come down or at least last longer, i would say I am a small breeder and I still pay about 3k a week on food[2010/09/11 13:31]  Lunaria Eclipse: it is not unfair to large breeders didnt you see Mat said EVERYONE has the same chances at them.  If you favor the larger breeders cause they have more turtles that is unfair. to small breederrs .  Grim and Mat both said you have the same chances.[2010/09/11 13:31]  Lunaria Eclipse: doesnt Agree, feels that if you choose to feed 1000 turtles then  you have decided to pay anyways.[2010/09/11 13:31]  Arianna Marenwolf: nods Marv[2010/09/11 13:31]  Lunaria Eclipse: ?[2010/09/11 13:31]  CalleCo Boxen: i think the problem is…when the chances are truly random, and certain breeders can breed as many as chance allows, we suddenly hear how much it sucks that the market is suddenly full of these now overbred specials…so which is it? be concerned over too many being bred or be concerned over not enough? can’t have it both ways[2010/09/11 13:31]  Grim Hathor: Alright – just to clarify confusion – In teh current system. We do not count how many turtles you own. We could how many of X cosmic your turtles have laid. (For instance, we count that your normals have produced 5 earths). We then use teh number there, 5, to determine how hard the next one will be (#6). Each cosmic done this way has a completely seperate value… so your mars dont know how many earths you’ve had… therefor the system never knows how many turtles you have… just how many of a specific cosmic you have bred.[2010/09/11 13:31]  Lindsay Pinelli: sorry chat lag i didn’t see mine go in[2010/09/11 13:32]  Eleri Ethaniel: the exponential decay was announced right off, so no one should have been supprised by it.[2010/09/11 13:32]  Lindsay Pinelli: i have alts but am i going to buy cosmics on them to get a venus? No. 1. i can’t afford that. 2. shouldn’t have to. i don’t even HAVE turtles on those avs. The only Cosmics and planets i have are the 2 cosmic starters and 3 earths[2010/09/11 13:32]  GeoMan Pinazzo: @@@ GRIM @@@ which costs every breeder more L$ in food does it not?[2010/09/11 13:32]  Eleri Ethaniel: *agrees with CalleCo*[2010/09/11 13:32]  Lindsay Pinelli: I will not and cannot buy from others to increase my chances and have that not work[2010/09/11 13:33]  Marv Sideshow: i think i have maybe 60 Lunaria[2010/09/11 13:33]  Lunaria Eclipse: i have over 100..and i dont feel cheated i feel it fair as its a game its the odds and the fun in trying[2010/09/11 13:33]  Venus Dumpling: HAVE BRED? THEN IF I BUY A COSMIC IT IS USED AGAINST ME BECAUSE I HAVE BRED SOMETHING WITH IT?[2010/09/11 13:34]  Eleri Ethaniel: Maybe I’m an etrnal optimist, but I think this would have been half the problem, if people were willing to share and exchange, instead of pricing planets at 10K and up.[2010/09/11 13:34]  Marv Sideshow: i didnt say i felt cheated lol, I said I felt food needs to last longer[2010/09/11 13:35]  Eleri Ethaniel: have bred= have had one of your turtles lay an egg of that type. Don’t shout[2010/09/11 13:35]  CalleCo Boxen: *ditto’s Eleri* oooh..that sounded naughty[2010/09/11 13:35]  Dominica Somerset: planets r too much the system needs tweeking[2010/09/11 13:35]  Arianna Marenwolf: nothing is RARE anymore[2010/09/11 13:35]  Eleri Ethaniel: I just walked by a venus prives at almost 30K. that’s not the guy’s fault[2010/09/11 13:35]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: There is something WRONG with the system guys, when some people haven’t gotten anything beyond an earth.[2010/09/11 13:35]  Eclipso Trescothick: >>>>>> Mathew and Grim. Does this also take place on birthstones? same parents laying eggs for example? <<<<<<[2010/09/11 13:36]  Kzru Bruhl pulls his shelter into this chant: ok i have a questio wth the decay is there a point where the maths say its gone to far as im is therre a bottom to the percentage? or will it just keep getting harder and harder?[2010/09/11 13:36]  Merlin Bellic: ok then why is it i have 8 new earths and as of today thay have not laid anything that is worth anything the the odds are not there… what are the odds here becouse if you look at it like i am this is like Vegas so tell me the odds on how 8 new turtles in the last 4 weeks have not laid any thing…[2010/09/11 13:36]  illusions Cisse: and how many venus’s have we seen for 3k[2010/09/11 13:36]  Grim Hathor: No venus – buying a cosmic isnt factored it – if you breed that cosmic and it lays another cosmic such as an earth laying a mars – then that new mars egg is tallied for the equation[2010/09/11 13:36]  Destry Alecto: so I buy 10 lottery tickets… 1 ever day… and the one on days 2-10 have an exponentially lower chance of winning then the one I bought on day one………[2010/09/11 13:36]  Grim Hathor: Again, I am tryign to clarify how it currently works – not saying it is teh best way of doing it[2010/09/11 13:37]  Lunaria Eclipse: The guys never hid the fact of the decay they said it right at the start norm turtles will lose chances as they give you them, cosmics would be linear[2010/09/11 13:37]  Arianna Marenwolf: Grim how about lowering the price of food?[2010/09/11 13:37]  Eclipso Trescothick: Does it works this way also for specials laying birthstones grim? expotentially decaying odds of getting a birthstone?[2010/09/11 13:37]  Lunaria Eclipse: lol[2010/09/11 13:37]  Matthew Anthony: This discussion isn’t about the food cost, it’s about the cosmic rates[2010/09/11 13:37]  Lunaria Eclipse: They have expenses like the server they pay for to house all the turtles people own and im sure that is not cheap[2010/09/11 13:37]  Izina Quandry waits patiently for the suggestion portion of this meeting[2010/09/11 13:37]  Dominica Somerset: yeah its too slow[2010/09/11 13:37]  Merlin Bellic: but it is[2010/09/11 13:37]  Arianna Marenwolf: Well “I” am talking about food[2010/09/11 13:38]  HoneyBear Lilliehook says softly….however, they’re closely tied together ;)[2010/09/11 13:38]  Matthew Anthony: While we know some people want food costs lowered, this isn’t the time and place  :-)[2010/09/11 13:38]  Destry Alecto: Lunaria… I think Grim and Matt can speak for themselves….. OK?[2010/09/11 13:38]  Marv Sideshow: no doubt[2010/09/11 13:38]  Izina Quandry: Matt, actually, it is part of this issue[2010/09/11 13:38]  Arianna Marenwolf: So are we going to have a meeting about food later then?[2010/09/11 13:38]  Merlin Bellic: if im going to sit here and buy food to git a mars thay are all in one[2010/09/11 13:38]  Lunaria Eclipse: I didnt say they couldnt Destry but thank you[2010/09/11 13:38]  Merlin Bellic: im spending money on food and gitting nothing in return[2010/09/11 13:39]  Arianne Selona: omg food is certainly a concern… but let’s stay focused please..[2010/09/11 13:39]  ANJILL Pevensey: one of my renters had never owned a turtle and joined turtling and had 15 females normals for 5 weeks and never got an earth from them. so is it per person or overall?the odds[2010/09/11 13:39]  Matthew Anthony: Eclipso – as we’ve stated before, birthstones are linear[2010/09/11 13:39]  Eclipso Trescothick: ok[2010/09/11 13:39]  Grim Hathor: Alright, I am going to ask for silence for a moment, so that we can list the concerns we have heard and written down, so as not to miss any. Please dont make us go through and dissallow chat again to get this done[2010/09/11 13:39]  Marv Sideshow: if u slowly cant get cosmics any longer and you continue to feed them whats the point i guess[2010/09/11 13:39]  Arianne Selona: because it’s fun….[2010/09/11 13:39]  Faide Morane: Forgive my ignorance, but could you explain Linear? when birthing turtles?[2010/09/11 13:40]  Eclipso Trescothick: btw Matt, may wanna use a text based viewer, such as Radegast from the third party viewer directory in case you crash again.[2010/09/11 13:40]  Grim Hathor: Asking for silence again (I know there is some chat lag). Please let us get through this though[2010/09/11 13:40]  Nola Hellershanks: my question is why are the same people making discoveries if the chances decrese?[2010/09/11 13:41]  Matthew Anthony: The main gist of what I’m seeing concern-wise is that people feel this system is unfair because of the decay, that we shouldn’t cater to the small breeders, that this system encourages alting, that some people are having difficulty getting things from cosmic starters, that changing it now could possibly hurt the market by putting more out there, and that getting males is a permanent detriment[2010/09/11 13:42]  Matthew Anthony: Those are just the ones from since we started the open chat discussion, not from the previous by-person portion  :-)[2010/09/11 13:42]  GeoMan Pinazzo: I don’t think you can hurt the market any more then it is now. Birth stones are being sold at 300L its already crashing.[2010/09/11 13:42]  Dominica Somerset: no i want some more out there[2010/09/11 13:42]  ANJILL Pevensey: my concern is that some people who are new buy regualr starters and still get no earths from them.people who have never turtled before just starting out.[2010/09/11 13:42]  Lunaria Eclipse: I think if you change it all that will happen is the market will flood with more and more of them the decayin prevents that if you ask me other than the alt concern[2010/09/11 13:43]  Matthew Anthony: GeoMan, now isn’t the time to discuss the concerns that people listed[2010/09/11 13:43]  Ridley Piers: Having dificulty getting anything from anything i have got nothing from mars venus or luna yet[2010/09/11 13:43]  Dominica Somerset: ill do an alt i dont care[2010/09/11 13:43]  Izina Quandry: because the exp decline is on a specific type of turtle laid by your turtles… for instance your earth turtles can lay both mars and venus. If it lays a mars, the next one might be harder to get. But those same two earths could lay a venus without any decline in chances until the venus is laid[2010/09/11 13:43]  Eleri Ethaniel: may I ask for a clarification?[2010/09/11 13:43]  GeoMan Pinazzo: Mat you mention the market I simply made the comment on it being you mention it.[2010/09/11 13:44]  Arianna Marenwolf: censored[2010/09/11 13:44]  Sassy Hendrassen: i still do not understand how smaller breeders have a better chance at some cosmics. i have gotten very little. i do not under this being said. will you pls help me understand thime[2010/09/11 13:45]  Matthew Anthony: Sassy – it’s not a “better chance”, it’s a more even chance with larger breeders[2010/09/11 13:45]  Grim Hathor: Alright, at this point we are going to move into the suggestions potion. We are beginning the lockdown process[2010/09/11 13:45]  Radioactive Rosca: let Grim and Matt go to the suggestion theme[2010/09/11 13:45]  Lunaria Eclipse: i agree with the more even chance for all breeders[2010/09/11 13:45]  Angelina Sinclair: To me the decay is like an expiration date. After you get X number of cosmics, it’s not profitable to keep them and your better off selling them and buying the ones you need for the next line. This is bad because it’s encouraging people to get alts to get what they want.[2010/09/11 13:45]  Lunaria Eclipse: and im a middle breeder not a small one[2010/09/11 13:47]  Grim Hathor: Alright, tiem for teh suggestions portion. If you would like a chance to speak during this portion, please IM (be sure to include a topic relevant to cosmics)[2010/09/11 13:48]  Grim Hathor: Again this should be brainstorming – lets just get ideas flowing and out there[2010/09/11 13:48]  Grim Hathor: The last part of this meeting is where we start weighing the ups and downs of each in relation to the concerns[2010/09/11 13:49]  Grim Hathor: If you are on teh list to speak – and someone ahead of you makes the same suggestion, let me know to take you off the list, we dont need repeating 8)[2010/09/11 13:50]  Fontana Kira: Please put in the individual FAQs if a turtle is on a linear or exponental formula (or no formula like the 1 per breeders).[2010/09/11 13:50]  Grim Hathor: Fontana Kira, you have teh floor[2010/09/11 13:51]  Fontana Kira: no, thanks[2010/09/11 13:51]  Fontana Kira: oops[2010/09/11 13:52]  Grim Hathor: Eclipso Trescothick, you have teh floor[2010/09/11 13:52]  Eclipso Trescothick: I would like to suggest that the distribution be trulyl random and linear. Just like a lottery. Same odds to everyone, if they chose to buy more ticket (turtles) that’s up to everyone else.There is no need to put a “expotentially decaying” distribution system in place…
Because if there is, the only solution I can see, if for me to make alts, send turtles to new alts every 2 weeks, and go to a stip joint with my saved lindens.[2010/09/11 13:54]  Eclipso Trescothick: We need to be informed og what sort of distribution method is in place for turtles and egg types, otherwise we are wasting money, and I still won’t be able to go to my strip joints no more.[2010/09/11 13:57]  Grim Hathor: Eleri, you have teh floor[2010/09/11 13:57]  Eleri Ethaniel: I feel a bit of an extremest with this, but I’d suggest a couple things1) limit special eggs to >5 per person, either by breeding or by points.  If people want more, thy have to buy them from those who don’t want them.[2010/09/11 13:58]  Eleri Ethaniel: 2) or make it truely random, that iof you have cosmics in your herd, any female might lay a cosmic[2010/09/11 13:58]  Eleri Ethaniel: 3) put a month or two moratorium on special laying to clear out the market.[2010/09/11 13:59]  Eleri Ethaniel: that’s my evil plan for turtle dominion ;)[2010/09/11 14:00]  Grim Hathor: Venus dumpling, you have the floor[2010/09/11 14:00]  Venus Dumpling: What i am seeing here is we have to create a bunch of alts put them all in the petable group then we have to send all our cosmics off to another alt after we get say 5 eggs from them and keep doing this if we want to get the whole cosmic series. What will this do to your numbers on turtlers? I think it should be a fair chance for everyone to get them and not have the decay at all! otherwise you will never know if the turtle market is truly growing or not!
Cosmics should also come from shine turtles as now they have lost all value in the marketplace[2010/09/11 14:01]  Venus Dumpling: thats all i have to say on this subject[2010/09/11 14:03]  Grim Hathor: Kzru, you have teh floor[2010/09/11 14:04]  Kzru Bruhl: sorry for bad spellings[2010/09/11 14:04]  Kzru Bruhl: with the decay rate there needs to be a minimum on the probability. if you dont and the maths keeps going after a set point there is no reson to keep the older turtles they are just a waste of time money prims and scrip times.[2010/09/11 14:05]  Kzru Bruhl: if you do limit how many of a set special you get then it will just make the big breeders drop half there stock  or make tones of alts[2010/09/11 14:06]  Kzru Bruhl: thats my 2 peneth thanks[2010/09/11 14:07]  Grim Hathor: arabella, you have teh floor[2010/09/11 14:07]  arabella Cinquetti: I understand that everyone is truly upset about the decline and the flooding of the market, but if we start changing rules in the middle of the game those who have a lot of turtles or invested large amounts of money into turtles will start liquidating. There has to be a healthy balance and extreme measures such as cap’ing, limitations on number of turtles people can have is not going to help turtles grow. I would suggest that there be more of a balance in all of the turtles, that if a cosmic was to breed with a glow or a birthstone that there is equal chance as long as a comic line  is involved in the breeding process. this allows for the other turtles we already have to  still have value to us and even if it allows for just say earths to be born this is more than we have at this point. It concerns me all this talk about  decaying and swapping to alts. Thanks for allowing me to voice an opinion :D[2010/09/11 14:09]  Grim Hathor: Lunaria, you ahve teh floor[2010/09/11 14:10]  Lunaria Eclipse: I suggest that you change nothing as it gives all turtlers an even shot at getting every turtle.  New turtlers need that boost to know they are not going to be less than others in turtles for a year now, they need to feel confident they will get the same chances as someone that has 100’s of turtles.  I like it how it is, feel its fair to turtlers on a whole.  So my suggestion is to leave all in place as is. As for the alts that is a concern with decay but I dont see how to prevent that of course and I do suggest that point item eggs have a limit per AV.  Thank you for letting me give my opinion on this all :)[2010/09/11 14:12]  Grim Hathor: Angelina Sinclair, you have teh floor[2010/09/11 14:14]  Angelina Sinclair: My suggestion is about the decay. I think the one serious problem with is you DIDN’T include the number of cosmics that person has. Think of it like this.. if someone has 500 cosmic turtles.. and they only get 15 mars out of that but can’t get any more because the chance has dropped so low. Yet me.. who has about 40 comics got about 6 or 7 from mine. When you compare those two situations you can see that there is something wrong. So my suggestion is tweak the decay to include how many cosmics that person has. I could add more detail to this but I’ll do that later. lol[2010/09/11 14:16]  Grim Hathor: Merlin, you have teh floor[2010/09/11 14:16]  Merlin Bellic: Make all specials linear rather than decaying distributions, period. (with exceptions for one day sorts of things like mardi/st pats/etc).

A special trader – with three new “extra” specials – 10 specials could be traded for the lowest, 20 for the second and 30 for the best one. This would give us all something to do with our worthless males. Yeah bigger breeders would have more, but then look how many fewer junk turtles would be out there.
Preannounce what will come next year in place of birthstones so that specials dont keep losing all value as they are now.
Create a “pet food” – half the cost and NO eggs. NOT the chastity belt that is expensive and complicated and doesn’t work on fixed turtles.[2010/09/11 14:17]  Grim Hathor: Afraid that one got a bit off topic, appologies.[2010/09/11 14:20]  Matthew Anthony: Give us just a second, we’re making sure the next couple of people on the list have something new that hasn’t been brought up yet  :-)[2010/09/11 14:22]  Matthew Anthony: Ridley has the floor now[2010/09/11 14:24]  Ridley Piers: I would like to suggest that no matter which way the cosmics are breed liner or decay we just are not getting the planets and moon and I thin overall we would like to see an increase at how fast these are comming to us so we can get what we need to get the next discovery[2010/09/11 14:25]  Venus Dumpling: WHy not make a point item that costs say 40k points where you can feed it to your turtle and it removes the decay from that 1 turtle? that would take care of some high point holders as well[2010/09/11 14:25]  Grim Hathor: Venus, you have teh floor(again). This is the last speaker[2010/09/11 14:26]  Venus Dumpling: i have alot of points and nothing to spend them on[2010/09/11 14:26]  Grim Hathor: woooooops, missed one other speaker that signed up early, my bad! Izina will be the last speaker[2010/09/11 14:27]  Grim Hathor: Izina, you’re up! (sorry about that!)[2010/09/11 14:28]  Izina Quandry: First, let me say I’m in favor of the exponential decay formula, allowing everyone (big breeder or small) to get at least one of each special/cosmic, (ie the National Pride Turtle, I think) while limiting the number of specials/cosmics being produced across the board. Random has a bigger chance of flooding the market.  Matt, I know you dont feel cost is part of this issue, but it is. Many people have mentioned the cost of feeding the turtles as an issue.Perhaps instead of changing the formulas for the specials, you could help us keep you successful by stretching how far a box of food goes. Instead of them eating 6 times a day, have them eat 4, or even 5. It doesnt sound like a lot, but it adds up on 100 turtles (just one serving less = 3000 servings a month), and to be quite honest, doesnt cut into your bottom line that much.  (more..)[2010/09/11 14:28]  Izina Quandry: Another thing that will help us all… increasing the commission we receive through the vendors. Most vendors give at least 10 percent commission. Petables gives 2% I believe, barely covering the cost of the vendor being hung at our store, prim wise.And Increase the discount we receive by buying a huge box. 500L isn’t a huge discount in the big scheme of things.We just want to be able to justify the cost of having the prims necessary and the food needed to keep our turtles, without having to take out second mortgages on or RL homes. To do that, we depend on selling our extra specials to raise the money to cover their costs. In my opinion, that is part of the game. If we can’t justify  the cost, more and more will leave, and Petables will die out. (yes. more)
To add on to arabella’s idea, if the cosmics breed with other specials, let them produce alien turtles \o/ or other specials not in the cosmic line 😉 Thank you.[2010/09/11 14:31]  Grim Hathor: Arlight, because of time, we are not going to do an open discussion on teh suggestion topic. We are going to move right from this, suggestions, into pros and cons (which will prolly take the most time). Are there any last minute suggestions that were waiting for open suggestions? if so please IM me now[2010/09/11 14:34]  Grim Hathor: Again in interest of time, Posting a suggestion I just recieved alst minute “reset decay rates for everyone periodically.  Right now there is no reason for me to continue breeding them because I’m pretty much nilled out as it stands so I have no motivation whatsoever to unbox or keep these turtles.”[2010/09/11 14:35]  Grim Hathor: Alright – Moving onto the Pros and Cons potion. Now is the time to actually discuss the suggestions. The good and teh bad of them, and how they will help resolve teh concerns. This part is the part most likely to get heated, so we all need to be sure we remain calm.[2010/09/11 14:36]  Grim Hathor: The way it is going to work is Matt is going to list off suggestions, and we are going to explain some of the technical dificulties (if they have technical difficulties), We will also give our opinions on them, what we feel are pros and cons. Then we will open chat back up. When chat opens back up do not all just start posting about different suggestions. We will bring up the suggestions, 1 at a time, discuss them, then move to the next[2010/09/11 14:36]  Grim Hathor: Keep your comment about the suggestion at hand please, so that we may get through them[2010/09/11 14:37]  Matthew Anthony: First one that came in was that we make planet-planet links linear and planet-moon links exponential[2010/09/11 14:38]  Matthew Anthony: Technically, this is possible, but in our opinion, this wouldn’t fix the problem that we’re having here – it’d just flip it from planets to moon[2010/09/11 14:38]  Matthew Anthony: Next suggestion was to make everything a linear distribution with no exponential decays[2010/09/11 14:39]  Matthew Anthony: Once again, this is technically possible.  From what we see, the pros are this would eliminate concerns of alt exploitation and it would alleviate most of the concerns expressed here[2010/09/11 14:39]  Matthew Anthony: The cons we see are that this would make it harder on smaller breeders, as well as a possibility to increase the number of them out on the market, leading to a quick value decrease[2010/09/11 14:40]  Matthew Anthony: Next was making everything more common.  Once again, technically possible (yay!  I like those)[2010/09/11 14:40]  Matthew Anthony: The nice thing with this is that it would allow more people to be happy on getting them[2010/09/11 14:41]  Matthew Anthony: The cons we see are once again market saturation and that it would run through all the Cosmics faster (even though there are quite a few of them), which we’re not sure would be a great thing if it went too fast[2010/09/11 14:42]  Matthew Anthony: Next suggestion was to put in the FAQ whether things are linear or exponential[2010/09/11 14:42]  Matthew Anthony: The biggest pro on this is that all of you would know what to expect, which would be great[2010/09/11 14:42]  Matthew Anthony: The biggest con we see is that we’d have to give away all of the linkages, so there would be no more exploration, unless we waited to do this until after each turtle was found a few times[2010/09/11 14:43]  Matthew Anthony: Next suggestion was to limit all special eggs to 5 per person per type.  Technically, this really isn’t possible because people can just use alt accounts[2010/09/11 14:45]  Matthew Anthony: Next suggestion was to make it so that any of your turtles can lay a cosmic egg if you have a lot of cosmics in your herd[2010/09/11 14:46]  Matthew Anthony: Technically this is feasible.  The positive we see in this is that it would give people more reasons to cheer checking their attractor.  The con would be that everything would have the same chance at everything, so there wouldn’t really be more exploration[2010/09/11 14:47]  Matthew Anthony: Next suggestion is a month or two moratorium on specials being laid.  This once again really isn’t technically feasible because of the missing birthstone months.  While it would be a pro to make the specials market smaller, that would be a month or two where people are paying for food to get no specials, which we see as a large con[2010/09/11 14:48]  Matthew Anthony: The next suggestion is that we do something to discourage using alternate accounts.  We’re open to any ideas on that front, but we really didn’t see anything in this discussion that would be a viable solution to the “alt problem”[2010/09/11 14:49]  Matthew Anthony: The next suggestion was that cosmics should also come from shine turtles.  This is technically possible.  The pro we see would be a temporary boost in shine values, but the con being that it would only be a short-term temporary boost since people can get shines in large numbers[2010/09/11 14:50]  Matthew Anthony: The next suggestion was to keep exponential decay formulas, but have a minimum amount that it goes to.  The biggest pro we see to this is that it would allow a small boost at the beginning, but would also have a linear component after a few eggs.  In addition, it discourages the use of alt accounts more than an exponential decay formula.  The downside is that it still would incentivize using alternate accounts[2010/09/11 14:52]  Matthew Anthony: The next suggestion was to allow any cosmic with something else to produce other cosmics, possibly just Earth.  This is technically possible.  The upside to this would be that it would create less dependance on cosmic starter eggs for new people coming in.  The downside would be that it would even further flood the Earth market, or whatever came from them[2010/09/11 14:52]  Matthew Anthony: The next suggestion was to change nothing.  Technically, this is very possible  ;-)[2010/09/11 14:53]  Matthew Anthony: The biggest upside is that it keeps what’s already there in effect today with the system encouraging trade between people to get large amounts of a certain planet.  The two downsides we see are that it does encourage the use of alternate accounts, and all the concerns that have been expressed today will still remain[2010/09/11 14:54]  Matthew Anthony: The next suggestion was to take how many cosmics the person already has into account.  This is technically not possible because it would require our server to constantly calculate that every time a turtle laid eggs, which would completely cripple it[2010/09/11 14:56]  Matthew Anthony: Next up is a high cost point item that removes decay from one specific turtle.  While not technically impossible, it would be the most technically-difficult thing on this list.  The upside to this is that it would create a point sink.  The downside is that it has the possibility to upset smaller breeders who can’t afford to get this point item en masse, and therefore wouldn’t have a chance to participate in the marketplace[2010/09/11 14:57]  Matthew Anthony: The last suggestion on the list about Cosmics is to reset the decay rates periodically. This is technically possible.  The pro to this would be that it would set things back to the way they were in the beginning, but the downside is that it would still encourage the use of alternate accounts during the in-between times[2010/09/11 14:58]  Matthew Anthony: I know there were some suggestions made about non-Cosmic topics (food, special trader, etc) that I have not included in this list because we really do want to focus this discussion on just how cosmics are bred[2010/09/11 14:59]  Matthew Anthony: So, before we open chat up to everyone for the pros/cons, I just want to re-iterate that we’re not here to criticize each other, just give pros and cons of each idea  :-)[2010/09/11 15:00]  Matthew Anthony: I’m not going to put the ones that are not technically possible up for discussion, because that would just be a waste of everyone’s time[2010/09/11 15:01]  Matthew Anthony: Just like with the problems and solutions times, if someone else says your pro or con, we’ve already written it down, so there’s no need to say it again.  That also applies to ones that Grim and I have already covered and I typed here[2010/09/11 15:01]  Matthew Anthony: with that, give us just a second to open everyone’s chat back up, and then I’ll post the first one for discussion[2010/09/11 15:04]  Matthew Anthony: The first one is once again that planet-to-planet should be a linear chance and planet-to-moon should be an exponential formula.  Pros/cons?[2010/09/11 15:04]  Ridley Piers: Matt, Grim I think the topics  discussed here today boil down to switch these to linear or not and then where to go from there once that is decided, wouldnt the best way to find out what eveyone wants be to create a proposal everyone in the group could vote on to do just that?[2010/09/11 15:05]  Quantum Landar: I don’t understand why they are worried about the little, few hundred linden per week breeder at the expense of those spending 10k or more per week.[2010/09/11 15:05]  Strongpaw Griffis: Mmmm alt votes gotta love those[2010/09/11 15:05]  Destry Alecto: It doesnt help….. just reverses things… Exponential decay should be removed…..[2010/09/11 15:05]  Angelina Sinclair: Well.. the moons are hard enough to get as is. I’ve gotten more mars and venuses than I ever gotten lunas. (Currently 5 venus 6 mars to 1 luna.)[2010/09/11 15:06]  Lunaria Eclipse: I see the pros as all would get them i see the cons as being the people with more turtles would profit more off it where as the smaller breeders would suffer.[2010/09/11 15:06]  LilLizzie Kidomen: be happy with that i have gotten 2 eaths and 1 luna total and not one thing whatso ever from the cosmic starters i purchased at all[2010/09/11 15:06]  Brieanne Bomazi: i think that will unjustly drive up the cost for ones already born while people try to get a jump in the market for the next line. The big breeders are just that thru their own choice, they choose to spend that money, no one offered them a bonus or a guarantee. They need to suck it up. No one should have an advantage, small or large. there was never a written assurance on anything.[2010/09/11 15:07]  Destry Alecto: why do the smaller breeder rate an advantage?  Its because Matt and Grim want to encourage new breeders to get them hooked on turtling… in order to get more peope in at the bottom floor of the pyramid…. Equality… across the board….is the only fair answer…. everyone has the same chance.[2010/09/11 15:07]  illusions Cisse: I did suck it up, i went from 200 in the cosmic series to 0[2010/09/11 15:07]  Bettie Heslop: can i just say im a small breeder and in the 6 weeks i had 8 pairs breeding i got one venus in all that time so i still think its pretty random to who recives what[2010/09/11 15:08]  Matthew Anthony: Any more pros/cons on that particular suggestion?  Please stay on that particular one for now, guys  :-)[2010/09/11 15:08]  Eleri Ethaniel: I agree with Bri. Most of the problems we’re seeing could have been managed by restraint and reasonable marketing- it’s not the system.[2010/09/11 15:08]  CalleCo Boxen: it doesn’t make sense to switch the laying style now after it’s been one way for so long, it just messes up the calculations[2010/09/11 15:08]  LilLizzie Kidomen: in order for things to be fair for everyone is to simply go with a linear or completely random chance at everything those that want more can buy more turtles and more food just like things are in rl if you want to win you buy more chances you cant win if you dont buy a ticket[2010/09/11 15:08]  Grim Hathor: Can we please keep teh talking ont eh topic of teh current suggestion, your opinions of it specifically, and the pros/cons to it not already discussed. This is too large a group to have people talking about other issues at the same time[2010/09/11 15:09]  Lunaria Eclipse: I am in agreement to, fair playin field for all turtlers big or small no advantages cause you have 1000’s of turtles ove rthose who dont.[2010/09/11 15:09]  Matthew Anthony: I’m going to move on to the next suggestion because I’m not seeing any new pros/cons on that one now  🙂  Making everything linear[2010/09/11 15:10]  LilLizzie Kidomen: in favor of that it is fair to all concerned each turtle has the same chance at breeding a specail[2010/09/11 15:10]  Lunaria Eclipse: pros.  All will get them .. Con’s most bigger turtlers will get more and crush the new and smaller breeders.[2010/09/11 15:11]  Tesseract Toxx: I like a linear rate with different chances to have a certain special and only certain turtles can have certain specials, everything from a 1/7 chance to a 1/100 chance[2010/09/11 15:11]  Angelina Sinclair: What is a smaller breeder? Seriously.. I hear people defending and protecting the smaller breeder but honestly.. you need at least 30 turtles to do or get anything within a reasonable time frame.[2010/09/11 15:11]  Matthew Anthony: just a quick note, we’re not voting on ideas, we’re just trying to get the pros and cons of them so that Grim and I may see new ones that we haven’t thought of[2010/09/11 15:11]  CodeBastard Redgrave: i personally think the decay is fine as is, but maybe could be reset every month or so.[2010/09/11 15:11]  Ahlanna Aura: Pro – everyone gets a fair shake, based on willingness to expend the dough to keep them breeding, offset hopefully buy the resulting sales, … con:  might get too many and have to nerf the rates a bit?[2010/09/11 15:11]  Brieanne Bomazi: can i ask a question on that first? What would change as far as getting the specials if you went from one formula to the next? the pro’s would be an equal chance, the concern being the big breeders would still claim its unfair they pay more for the same chance as everyone else.[2010/09/11 15:12]  Radioactive Rosca: A big breeder pays more for food. He is entitled to have better results, more cosmic planet/moons eggs. I vote for linear[2010/09/11 15:12]  Destry Alecto: Everything should be linear.. Its only fair….. Thats the Pro… In a Lottery (which that is what this is) everyone should have teh same chance.  Cons: NONE as fairness helps everyone… and makes us all equal… Big breeder,, small and Tiny.[2010/09/11 15:12]  Brieanne Bomazi: good point Destry.[2010/09/11 15:13]  Faide Morane: I think a reset of the decay is a good idea, alts will be made regardless…[2010/09/11 15:13]  CalleCo Boxen: the con i see here is that there will still be complianing no matter what…whether from small breeders saying they can’t get as many, to the big breeders saying there are so many available they end up having to practically give them away to get rid of them…[2010/09/11 15:13]  Tesseract Toxx: a linear rate would get rid of the alt problems[2010/09/11 15:13]  Ridley Piers: 100% agree with Destry and no reason for any to use an alt then[2010/09/11 15:13]  Eclipso Trescothick: Amen Destry: If people want to spend more, so be it, if they dont, they can buy an egg and save the linden on food… it’s not out fault a select few chose to be tight[2010/09/11 15:13]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: I’m with Destry as well. It needs to be fair to ALL, not big, not small….ALL[2010/09/11 15:13]  Lunaria Eclipse: but a linear rate would crush smaller turtlers.[2010/09/11 15:13]  Destry Alecto: Removing Decay also elkiminates people needing or using alts as there is really no substantial advantage..[2010/09/11 15:13]  Lunaria Eclipse: fair to all[2010/09/11 15:13]  Jai Thistle: I also agree with Destry[2010/09/11 15:14]  Arianna Marenwolf: you dont even need an alt, a partner would server the same instance so a moot point on alts[2010/09/11 15:14]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: no it wouldn’t, not anymore than it does right now Luna[2010/09/11 15:14]  Angelina Sinclair: What is a small breeder?[2010/09/11 15:15]  Bettie Heslop: yes it would[2010/09/11 15:15]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: If everybody gets a 5% or 10% chance, then it’s fair[2010/09/11 15:15]  Faide Morane: A linear rate would eventually flood the market as well, like with the BS turtles[2010/09/11 15:15]  Infiniti Mirihi: if every breeding pair of turtles has the same odds, the samepercentage droprate of an earth/cosmic/etc, then an alt will have the same percentage, so the owner of the breeding pair will not matter alt or not, it will be a percentage of the droprate, on all breeding pairs (male:female)[2010/09/11 15:15]  Merlin Bellic: Pro – if you set the points thing up right every one wins meaning the person can sell the item to the smaller breader so that thay can git more cosmic… Con – just means i have to git more Lindons to by the pill from people like Star and Venus keeping every one happy…[2010/09/11 15:15]  Eleri Ethaniel: smaller turtlers are already crushed.[2010/09/11 15:15]  Bettie Heslop: so the smaller breeders would still suffer either way l;ol[2010/09/11 15:15]  Quantum Landar: I agree with Lunaria, but it should go one step further… NO ONE should be allowed to havew more than 20 turtles. That way there will be no “big breeders” to “crush” the small ones.[2010/09/11 15:15]  Brieanne Bomazi: the thing is, no matter be it pets, or a game in Sl like tiny empires, people will ALWAYS have alts to try and beat the system. there is no way around it period.[2010/09/11 15:16]  Dirteh Deed: people would just make alts quantum[2010/09/11 15:16]  Angelina Sinclair: A smaller breeder can’t do anything, anyway. You need at least 30 turtles to do anything! Hell I got 40 turtles and I can still compete with the big breeders. :P[2010/09/11 15:16]  Eleri Ethaniel: and those people know they have a captive market, so they jack the prices up.[2010/09/11 15:16]  Matthew Anthony: chat lag seems to have eaten my post… I’m not seeing new pros/cons on that, let’s move on to making cosmics more common in general[2010/09/11 15:17]  Tesseract Toxx: I have 24  turtles and I would say I am a small breeder[2010/09/11 15:17]  Ahlanna Aura: i’d hate to pay the food bill for them one month though LOL[2010/09/11 15:17]  Eclipso Trescothick: a linera distribution, with a smaller chance would actually keep the market from flooding. no small breeders would be crushed, you could then buy an egg instead of buying food to produce one and save money in the process.[2010/09/11 15:17]  Tesseract Toxx: just keeping different specials with different probabilities and a flat rate of return would be fair[2010/09/11 15:17]  Kzru Bruhl: quantum simpole fact i sould pack up and walk away so would all the breeders i know large and small i have turtles cos they are cute and i loke them you limit how many i have there is no point in half my pens[2010/09/11 15:17]  Strongpaw Griffis: Short and sweet; Equal chances for all! A trader system for cosmic/specials to get rid of useless turtles that penalise people.[2010/09/11 15:17]  Destry Alecto: In a lottery if my twin brother buys a ticket he has just as much chance… 🙂  Bottom Line.. alts arent an issue…. small breeders (less than  say 50 turtles) would have as much a chance with their cosmics as the mega breeders.. and just FYI.. I am a SMALL breeder[2010/09/11 15:17]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: everybody complains about “big breeders” now….so what’s the difference?[2010/09/11 15:17]  Ridley Piers: Here is an idea control the secondary market, make a vender that you have to use to sell your cosmics with a set price to sell them at so no one can ask the overinflated prices they do[2010/09/11 15:17]  Infiniti Mirihi: quite simply, the lack of regulations, be it disclosing odds, alts, market pricing etc, is a problem, and without such regulations, alts will happen, problems will arise because there are not pecautions in place (regulations) to prevent it[2010/09/11 15:18]  GeoMan Pinazzo: Personally I have bought over 100 cosmic eggs from the vendor an had no idea of this system. I feel I have had my lindens ripped from my pocket. When I play a lot machine or anything the ODDS are posted. I feel I have been tricked. I do not believe there are any big breeeders left also all the ones I know have down sized to 40 or less or got out. They are watching this meeting to determine if they will continue. At the same time I seen shelly call star song a liar and seen nothing in my transcripts of any such thing. Shelley owes her and Apoligy…..   The petable group is a CLICK nothing more and when I placed comments that where educational statements I was flamed and shelley did nothing. I believe Mat and Grim have alot to work out and not just what system they have in place.  From marketing to the group and more…..[2010/09/11 15:18]  Lindsay Pinelli: i would like a chance at getting the other planets. I feel  I have no chances as I have not gotten any and so many others have. It feels like i am doing something wrong and I know i’m not lol[2010/09/11 15:19]  Lindsay Pinelli: i’ve given up on even trying to get those i have a dead cosmic and i actually don’t care right now lol[2010/09/11 15:19]  Lunaria Eclipse: yes you are[2010/09/11 15:20]  Matthew Anthony: ok, guys, I’m starting to see a lot of off-topic posts, let’s please redirect to the pros/cons of making all cosmics more common[2010/09/11 15:20]  Grim Hathor: Everyone – Last time I am going to say it. Keep your posts in here about the suggestion at hand, your opinon on it, pros and cons not already covered. If you can not do this we will not get through this meeting[2010/09/11 15:20]  Matthew Anthony: *sighs*  chat lag again… I’m seeing a lot that’s off topic here, let’s please re-focus on the pros/cons of making all cosmics more common[2010/09/11 15:21]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: Guys, no matter what you do, someone is going to be unhappy. But if you make it so that everyone has the same chance to get the same thing, you’ll lose a lot fewer people[2010/09/11 15:21]  Tesseract Toxx: regarding the cosmics, people seem to want to get them often  and want them to be worth a lot of lindens, those two are contradictory. pros are that people get more cosmics, cons are that they are worth less in the marketplace[2010/09/11 15:22]  Brieanne Bomazi: the con to making them more common is that there is no market for them then, they become the same as a basic breeder. Specials are specials. cant have it both ways.[2010/09/11 15:22]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: They’re worth far less now than they were a month ago[2010/09/11 15:22]  Ahlanna Aura: Pro of more common, everyone gets a happy dance at the attractor/con: ugh markets will be flooded and specials worth less than cost to feed to breed them[2010/09/11 15:22]  Brieanne Bomazi: No one made you spend one single linden. if you did so blindly, the fault rests 100% with you. dont blame anyone else for your greed and lack for forsight.[2010/09/11 15:22]  CalleCo Boxen: pros-yes, people who are having a hard time getting the cosmics now will be able to get them easier…including me 😛 con-the market floods and we have the reverse complaining that things are too easy to get[2010/09/11 15:22]  Marv Sideshow: personally I love the cosmic line, and cant wait for the next one and the next one, would be cool to see more shine cosmics (not many out there) would be cool too see different planets breed with differnt planet to create somethin else as well[2010/09/11 15:22]  Eclipso Trescothick: I think the whole petable team owes the community an apology. Knowing that cosmics would eventually decrease to an almost NIL chance of getting cosmics eggs, and not warn us or tell us about it until now, I think that is leaning towards fraud. Had the “Mistake” of not posting how the distribution were set to a few people, this would have gone on for longer, wasting peoples lindens and making you guys Richer……[2010/09/11 15:22]  LilLizzie Kidomen: i dont care how many if any i get so long as i know i do have a fair and EQUAL shot at getting one as everyone else does[2010/09/11 15:22]  Arianne Selona: omg[2010/09/11 15:23]  CalleCo Boxen: but they did tell us about it getting hrder to get one with every one that is laid[2010/09/11 15:23]  illusions Cisse: how could it be anything other then blindly, none of us knew what the system was[2010/09/11 15:23]  Serenity Aura: Problem being people want them to be more common now… give it a couple of weeks we’ll be flooded with them. Then everyone becomes bored with them. I think more common is a bad idea.[2010/09/11 15:23]  Eleri Ethaniel: they *did* tell us.[2010/09/11 15:23]  Lunaria Eclipse: THEY SAID it from the beginning about the decrease as you get them.[2010/09/11 15:24]  Lunaria Eclipse: they said it right from the start.[2010/09/11 15:24]  Brieanne Bomazi: yus they did.[2010/09/11 15:24]  Matthew Anthony: next up: putting in the FAQ whether something is linear or exponential[2010/09/11 15:24]  Matthew Anthony: ok, guys, we’re getting off-topic here, so let’s move on tot he next one[2010/09/11 15:24]  Arianne Selona: who is john galt?[2010/09/11 15:24]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: ok, but then what about people like Lindsay who aren’t getting anything?[2010/09/11 15:24]  Eleri Ethaniel: just because you didn’t know the exact numbers, doesn’t mean they lied to you[2010/09/11 15:25]  Helpless Frog: Note: If specials/cosmics were common then they would no longer be specials.[2010/09/11 15:25]  CalleCo Boxen: i like the idea you had about waiting for the first 2 or three to be hatched and then adding that to the write up so the mystery is there for a bit, but still people don’t have to wait to breed them to find out[2010/09/11 15:25]  Ahlanna Aura: Pro you know what to breed for/con will result in linears becoming less targetted and exponential becoming exploinential[2010/09/11 15:25]  Tesseract Toxx: I think putting in the faq or on a chart on the website the odds and rules of a certain type of special would be a good idea. the only con then is that more common specials don’t go for super high prices at first[2010/09/11 15:25]  Lunaria Eclipse: they never lied nor decieved they said frome the start about the decrease as you got more.[2010/09/11 15:25]  Lindsay Pinelli: pros- it would be more encouraging for people to try getting them. I think it would help the market not hurt it. cons. I’m worried that some would try to pull another scam.[2010/09/11 15:26]  Arianne Selona: From the first day you got turtles… It was a bloody poker hand…[2010/09/11 15:26]  Ridley Piers: if we stay with the way things are then yes we should know what they are when they are discovered not before[2010/09/11 15:26]  Destry Alecto: Excactly the SAME amount we are receiveing now but with ZERO exponential decay…[2010/09/11 15:27]  Faide Morane: Perhaps keep the cosmic decay in place but allow them to be tradered, with a meter that everytime it reaches 100% the decay is reset?[2010/09/11 15:27]  Matthew Anthony: I’m not seeing any new suggestions on that, so moving on – making it so that anything can lay a cosmic if you have a lot of cosmics in your herd[2010/09/11 15:27]  Tesseract Toxx: pro cosmics become more common, con cosmics become worthless a lot faster[2010/09/11 15:27]  Tesseract Toxx: I think only cosmics should have cosmics[2010/09/11 15:27]  Drifter McGinnis: why is it all about the cosmics and not the other issues that are going on with turtles may l ask[2010/09/11 15:28]  Bettie Heslop: i agree with tess[2010/09/11 15:28]  Izina Quandry: what determines “a lot”?[2010/09/11 15:28]  Kzru Bruhl: tess priety much summed it up for me[2010/09/11 15:28]  LilLizzie Kidomen: i think in addition to the changes being discussed here a wonderful addition to petable turtles in general would be the addition of a place in the blog or on the petable sim to list any turtles we would like to trade or sell and maybe a minimum pricing standard would help even things out[2010/09/11 15:28]  Destry Alecto: Do Not make them more common.. just eliminate Exponential decay to make distributionn more fair..[2010/09/11 15:28]  Merlin Bellic: Seeing that this is going no where and the turtles are going down hill i selling all my turtles for 100L each if any one wants them im me thanks[2010/09/11 15:28]  ANJILL Pevensey: i agree with Drifter.[2010/09/11 15:28]  Destry Alecto: Drifter: Delusions of Grandeur and desire to always have CONTROL..[2010/09/11 15:29]  Ridley Piers: see nothing positvie, cosmics for cosmics[2010/09/11 15:29]  Tesseract Toxx: other kinds of turtles can have other specials[2010/09/11 15:29]  Lindsay Pinelli: yeah i see where that can happen too. Like some may take advantage and brag in chat upsetting the ones that haven’t gotten them yet and just cause drama[2010/09/11 15:29]  CodeBastard Redgrave: that WILL make them more Common, Destry. keep them RARE. hell, i’m even for increasing the decay rate.[2010/09/11 15:30]  Lunaria Eclipse: lol[2010/09/11 15:30]  Lindsay Pinelli: act all better and such blah blah lol[2010/09/11 15:30]  Tesseract Toxx: I think the best thing petable could do would be to consult and economics professor on some of these issues or a professional economist or financial planner[2010/09/11 15:30]  Lunaria Eclipse: well said, I feel that all deserve a shot at them from new to older turtlers[2010/09/11 15:30]  Matthew Anthony: btw guys if it wasn’t obvious enough, there is no advertising allowed in here… but please do stay on topic with the current suggestion[2010/09/11 15:31]  Madison Whelan: ok , im just coming in so. p[erhaps i have this wrong but, if i buy about 20 cosmics and breed out of it about 2 or 3 good eggs be it venus or mars etc. then hwy breed venus and mars etc if you wont get much after that…solution sell th egreta eggs. hope you break even and get rid of the rest till the next line comes out????[2010/09/11 15:31]  Angelina Sinclair: Well the decay rate encourages multiple things such as: 1) Alts 2) Expiration date with cosmics lines 3) Big breeders reducing their numbers so they can cut their losts.[2010/09/11 15:32]  Matthew Anthony: I’m not seeing anything new on that one, though, so let’s move on to the next – cosmics coming from shines[2010/09/11 15:32]  Helpless Frog: Here’s an odd suggestion, not sure how off topic or feasable, why not tie the odds to the actual AGE of the turtles involved, older turtles have increased chances.[2010/09/11 15:32]  Marv Sideshow: totally think its a good idea Matt, not many shine cosmics[2010/09/11 15:32]  Brieanne Bomazi: I’d love to have some shine cosmics :)[2010/09/11 15:32]  Lunaria Eclipse: oh me too[2010/09/11 15:32]  Eleri Ethaniel: pro- bloodlines would increase. Lots of peoples cosmic earths are very closely related.[2010/09/11 15:33]  Lunaria Eclipse: but if they are past 4th gen can they be shines?[2010/09/11 15:33]  Bettie Heslop: great idea[2010/09/11 15:33]  Lindsay Pinelli: Am I understanding the process right or wrong? say you start with 2 cosmics, get a few earths then a venus, Luna and so on. Do your chances get lower with each planet?[2010/09/11 15:33]  Serenity Aura: but aren’t we supposed to breed shine through generations?[2010/09/11 15:33]  Matthew Anthony: cosmics already can have shine, but this is specifically related to shine turtles being able to produce earths[2010/09/11 15:33]  Ridley Piers: I think any “normal” turtles should be able to breed the cosmics starters glows shine whatever[2010/09/11 15:33]  LilLizzie Kidomen: i am against this as i agree they should not be made more common as that would just drop the value[2010/09/11 15:33]  Tesseract Toxx: pro is that it makes cosmics more common, con prices drops on more common items[2010/09/11 15:33]  Marv Sideshow: well i only know of 1 person that has a shine cosmic so i thought it was just massively rare[2010/09/11 15:33]  Brieanne Bomazi: the con to that is that they would be more common, specials are supposed to be rare.[2010/09/11 15:33]  CodeBastard Redgrave: noooooooo please do not. i’m with Lil. i worked HARD to get even a little shine on my cosmics, it should stay this way.[2010/09/11 15:34]  Lunaria Eclipse: no it means you wont get as many earths ..if you got 10 you will get less born to you then mars if you get say 5 the chances of more slim down it doesnt decrease your odds of getting anything new just as you get them it decreased the ods of getting that particular one[2010/09/11 15:34]  Serenity Aura: shine is something i’d like to work up to… if we make it that shine turtles can have cosmics. Well thats something taken a way from me and many others. Totally against it![2010/09/11 15:34]  Matthew Anthony: next suggestion to discuss – keeping the exponential decay where it is now, but have a minimum value that it goes to[2010/09/11 15:35]  Ridley Piers: to breed cosmics starter( the ones we buy for 250) yes earth and other no[2010/09/11 15:35]  Brieanne Bomazi: Matt how would that make a difference? I (and i know others too) that the math is way beyind me.[2010/09/11 15:35]  Brieanne Bomazi: beyond*[2010/09/11 15:35]  Eleri Ethaniel: pro is we wouldn’t have to make flow charts to figure out how to get non-inbred cosmics.[2010/09/11 15:35]  Eclipso Trescothick: so a exponential decay that turns linear Matthew?[2010/09/11 15:35]  Eleri Ethaniel: what Bri said- Buh?[2010/09/11 15:35]  CodeBastard Redgrave: it’s possible Serenity, i’ll show you how.[2010/09/11 15:35]  Matthew Anthony: Brieanne – once it reached a certain point (just out of the air, I’ll grab the number 5), it would turn linear[2010/09/11 15:36]  Brieanne Bomazi: ok, that makes sense, thanks Matt :)[2010/09/11 15:36]  Eleri Ethaniel: ah[2010/09/11 15:36]  Serenity Aura: oh i know it’s possible Codie… just don’t like the idea of shine turtles making cosmics :)[2010/09/11 15:37]  Ahlanna Aura: Pro: cant think of one, still cutting off your most loyal customers to a low limit and feeling forced to find alt’ternatives to continue their lines or to bump production to offset the cost of food to breed them to that point[2010/09/11 15:37]  CalleCo Boxen: i gotta say, if the min number is small enough, i wouldn’t see a problem with it, but if it’s too high, then there really isn’t a point to the decay in the first place[2010/09/11 15:37]  Lunaria Eclipse: yeah I like the idea of that and no dont want tshines to make cosmics but would like cosmics to make shines haha[2010/09/11 15:37]  CalleCo Boxen: but that would only be to make the people who don’t like decay happy…not cause i want it…lol[2010/09/11 15:38]  LilLizzie Kidomen: against .. i dont feel that any decay is a fair process and i feel that the playing field should be equal and that means that if you buy more tickets you get more chances.[2010/09/11 15:38]  Matthew Anthony: next suggestion – allowing cosmic + anything else to produce Earth[2010/09/11 15:38]  Serenity Aura: Basically it says don’t have more turtles as it’s completely pointless ;)[2010/09/11 15:38]  Madison Whelan: Why do we want cosmics to make shines …we already make shines a shine is a shine[2010/09/11 15:38]  Madison Whelan: low med and high[2010/09/11 15:39]  Lunaria Eclipse: the decayin makes it fair for all who are breeding[2010/09/11 15:39]  Madison Whelan: whats after that if it comes from regular[2010/09/11 15:39]  CodeBastard Redgrave: against: there’s already much Earths around[2010/09/11 15:39]  Madison Whelan: specioals or cosmics[2010/09/11 15:39]  Dominica Somerset: i dont have a problem with the system right now ty[2010/09/11 15:39]  CalleCo Boxen: pro-same as all the other suggestions, makes them easier to get for everyone, con-makes them easier to get making them not so special anymore[2010/09/11 15:40]  Destry Alecto: No the decay makes it MORE fair for small breeders….. in order to hook them into Turtles… decay is not truly random… a lottery should be totally random…. with no exponential decay..[2010/09/11 15:40]  Ahlanna Aura: Pro; would expand the lines and available turtles to improve lines / cons; depends, is exploitnential decay still in play?[2010/09/11 15:40]  LilLizzie Kidomen: no luna it makes it tilted towards the pnes who dont have many turtles.. what part of if you line it up turtle for turlte your turtles have more chances to get one than mine do[2010/09/11 15:41]  LilLizzie Kidomen: that is just plain not fair[2010/09/11 15:41]  Matthew Anthony: ok guys, we’re not on the topic of decay vs linear anymore – please re-focus on the new topic  :-)[2010/09/11 15:41]  Lunaria Eclipse: not with the decay the more i get the less chance i get at getting them…just like you[2010/09/11 15:41]  Lunaria Eclipse: kk sorry[2010/09/11 15:41]  Ridley Piers: we dont need more ways to get eartjs we have enought as it is[2010/09/11 15:42]  Lunaria Eclipse: I am happy with just the norms and the cosmics giving us the beginnings of the series[2010/09/11 15:42]  LilLizzie Kidomen: it isnt about the breeder its about the turtles why should one turtle be more inclined to produce than another?[2010/09/11 15:42]  Matthew Anthony: and of course right as I say that, we move on to the next topic, changing nothing[2010/09/11 15:42]  Serenity Aura: but why should the chance be the same if Lizzie has 3X more turtles? and in turn is paying X3 more in food bills[2010/09/11 15:42]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: Changing nothing will cripple your business[2010/09/11 15:42]  Lunaria Eclipse: the only con i see to not changing anything is alt control.[2010/09/11 15:42]  Tesseract Toxx: pros of changing nothing is that it’s easy, cons is that people are still majorly pissed[2010/09/11 15:43]  Ahlanna Aura: Pro: to change nothing we all know where we stand and can stop feeding the beast now/ con: i want to keep feeding the beast please[2010/09/11 15:43]  Serenity Aura: lol Ahlanna[2010/09/11 15:43]  CalleCo Boxen: pros-makes it easy on you guys, you won’t have to do anything, and those of us happy with it as it is will stay happy-cons-those that don’t like it, well, will remain unhappy and quite possibly leave, making the market smaller possibly[2010/09/11 15:43]  Lady Carminucci: it is random, no matter how many turtles you have. i only had 7 turtles out 2 being cosmics and i got a venus[2010/09/11 15:43]  CodeBastard Redgrave: changing nothing is what i vote for. Cosmics are fine this way IMOHO. changing anything with them will flood the market, and make even less happy people.[2010/09/11 15:43]  Kzru Bruhl: did i miss my chance to spap for capping the decay?[2010/09/11 15:43]  LilLizzie Kidomen: the current system is unfair i know with that system i will definatly reduce my numbers there fore save food costs because my turtles are worthless and do nothing but connsume[2010/09/11 15:44]  Matthew Anthony: I think we’re kind of beating a dead horse with this one, so we’ll move on again[2010/09/11 15:44]  Matthew Anthony: next suggestion was the high-cost point item that removes decay from one specific turtle[2010/09/11 15:44]  Serenity Aura: The best solution is for everyone to become small breeders. Then it becomes fair. But not sure thats the solution we’re looking for :S[2010/09/11 15:45]  Lunaria Eclipse: I guess i could go for that but then the big breeders have an advantage over the smaller ones that do not have enough turtles to produce the points to ge tthe item[2010/09/11 15:45]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: I can’t see any pros for that. The con is that once done, you’re stuck with that specific turtle[2010/09/11 15:45]  Bettie Heslop: can i ask what is a small breeder how many turts ?[2010/09/11 15:46]  Izina Quandry: Im not sure thats… feasible? How do you know which turtle has decayed and by how much and for which species it can breed[2010/09/11 15:46]  Lunaria Eclipse: i dunno…i consider myself medium i ahve about 100[2010/09/11 15:46]  Ridley Piers: removes it for a certain amount of time or forever, and would that mean that turtle now works linear?[2010/09/11 15:46]  Grim Hathor: Indeed this one would be technically very challenging[2010/09/11 15:46]  Bettie Heslop: well im a small then and i dont get half as many if any than the big breeders lolol thats the way it is[2010/09/11 15:46]  Matthew Anthony: this one remember we marked as very close to technically impossible, and honestly it’s not something we really want to try to tackle because of that, but it was suggested[2010/09/11 15:46]  Angelina Sinclair: Yea that’s what I’ve asked.. because anyone who has under 20 turtles can’t get anything… a smaller breeder gets nothing anyway.. so why are we concern about them again?[2010/09/11 15:46]  LilLizzie Kidomen: mark, how is that technically possible as your number are based on the breeder now NOT the turtles wouldnt that then mean a revamp of the whole system to make it turtle based?[2010/09/11 15:47]  Strongpaw Griffis: Pointless since there is no way of knowing that about a turtle[2010/09/11 15:47]  CalleCo Boxen: yeah..there are too many variables that would have to be discussed and thought of before really having an opinion on this one..but of all of them, depending on how it wouldd be done, this has the most pros and least cons for me[2010/09/11 15:47]  Ahlanna Aura: yea im not sure i can remember who got what and when anyway.. i cant remember my name most days[2010/09/11 15:47]  Matthew Anthony: yes, LilLizzie, it really would (I’m assuming you meant Matthew, not Mark hehe), which is why it’s close to technically impossible[2010/09/11 15:47]  LilLizzie Kidomen: sorry long day[2010/09/11 15:47]  Matthew Anthony: np  :-)[2010/09/11 15:47]  Lunaria Eclipse: man im tired[2010/09/11 15:48]  Matthew Anthony: last suggestion was to reset the decay levels periodically[2010/09/11 15:48]  Ridley Piers: I would rather see a one time high point purchase of each planet as a sink than that[2010/09/11 15:48]  Bettie Heslop: me too been up 21 hrs now waitng to get in on the chat hahahahahah[2010/09/11 15:48]  Faide Morane: I re-suggest….  keep the cosmic decay in place but allow them to be tradered, with a meter that everytime it reaches 100% the decay is reset?[2010/09/11 15:48]  Bettie Heslop: i agree on that if the decay has to stay :)))))[2010/09/11 15:48]  CalleCo Boxen: pros-allows those that hate decay to be happy, cons-really makes the point of it being decay a moot point[2010/09/11 15:49]  Bettie Heslop: but would like to see it gone :))))[2010/09/11 15:49]  Ahlanna Aura: Pro: would incentify people to keep going and know they have a chance/Con: must be random or unpublished resets because knowing when would still cause the alt issue[2010/09/11 15:49]  LilLizzie Kidomen: if the system were turtle based none of these issues would be issues however it would raise new issues in that when a person sells a turtle that has been decayed then the new owner would have no chance at all of a special therefore i dont see this as a doable thing at all[2010/09/11 15:49]  Ginger Kenin: i think small breeder is maybe under 50?[2010/09/11 15:50]  Kzru Bruhl pulls a knife and heas for the pens need to kill 3[2010/09/11 15:50]  Bettie Heslop: lmaooooo kzru[2010/09/11 15:50]  Sassy Hendrassen: lol[2010/09/11 15:50]  Danielle Stormcrow: *takes Kz’s knife* nu uh.. and you stay away from mine![2010/09/11 15:50]  Matthew Anthony: I think that wraps up the discussion, thanks guys  🙂  there have been some new suggestions that have come out from this[2010/09/11 15:51]  Kzru Bruhl: ok as i missed it[2010/09/11 15:51]  Kzru Bruhl: if you keep it decreasing with nothing to stop it doing so eventualy i will just get rid of cosmice as worth nothing as there will be no way to get anytihng frop them capping them to x perperson will do the same. if you make it a equil chance it would be fairer to the big breeders who do pay alot of money in. if you keep the diminishing returnes and but a bace line in then its the middle grund the new people get some thing nice and the older breeders  still get enough to keep them in the game and not walking away#[2010/09/11 15:51]  Angelina Sinclair: Any suggestions your considering?[2010/09/11 15:51]  Matthew Anthony: we’re not announcing anything today, but we will do a post in the next few days with what the plan is going forward  :-)[2010/09/11 15:51]  Lunaria Eclipse: All  i know is this I love my turtles ..thank you both for the enjoyment i get from them every day and thank you for all you do for us.[2010/09/11 15:51]  Matthew Anthony: we’re going to discuss them all over the next few days, Angelina, at further length[2010/09/11 15:51]  Smokey Seelowe: ty Matt and Grimm[2010/09/11 15:51]  HoneyBear Lilliehook: Thank you for at least hearing us out[2010/09/11 15:51]  Kzru Bruhl: sorry didnt realise you hd covered it *blushes* and i wanted to use that spam[2010/09/11 15:52]  Matthew Anthony: and miracle of miracles, I only crashed twice!  *cheers*[2010/09/11 15:52]  CalleCo Boxen: lol[2010/09/11 15:52]  Lunaria Eclipse: lol[2010/09/11 15:52]  Grim Hathor: Thank you all for participating, and giving your opinions[2010/09/11 15:52]  Grim Hathor: And suggestions,a nd concerns, etc 8)[2010/09/11 15:52]  Lunaria Eclipse: what time is the memorial? and can i leave this group lol no room[2010/09/11 15:52]  Venus Dumpling: your wrong on the cons for this idea  Next up is a high cost point item that removes decay from one specific turtle.  While not technically impossible, it would be the most technically-difficult thing on this list.  The upside to this is that it would create a point sink.  The downside is that it has the possibility to upset smaller breeders who can’t afford to get this point item en masse, and therefore wouldn’t have a chance to participate in the marketplace if the decay stays how it is then the smaller or new breeders already have the advantage without the point item not only would people not need alts now but the points go down and big breeders are happy to. Small breeders are happy because they have an advantage big breeders dont anyway[2010/09/11 15:52]  Grim Hathor: We have taken a few things away from thsi for sure[2010/09/11 15:53]  Venus Dumpling: another pro you didnt mention is you can have the trader item no transfer but in the market place that turtle is now sellable with the point item attached so smaller breeders can buy the turtle and get even better odds :D[2010/09/11 15:53]  Matthew Anthony: Madame Maracas’ memorial service is in just over an hour[2010/09/11 15:53]  Lunaria Eclipse: ty Mat[2010/09/11 15:53]  Matthew Anthony: yw[2010/09/11 15:53]  Venus Dumpling: sorry if i missed it but just got back[2010/09/11 15:54]  Danielle Stormcrow: Thank you guys, I had to grocery shop for myRL kids.. their food bill is significantly less than my turtles, but still they have to be fed. *laughs*[2010/09/11 15:57]  Merlin Bellic: ok well all have fun thay tryed to kick me out thanks for the fun 🙂

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